Who's going to win the World Cup?

[eamo]

May as well start one of these.

I cant call it. I actually cant see anyone beating Brazil. Then again something mad can happen like has become customary in competitions recently.

eg France (never scored a goal), Argentina and Portugal knocked out in 2002 group stages, Greece winning Euro 2004, Recent Champions Leagues, Shaun Murphy and Graeme Dott winning the snooker, Annaduff winning the Leitrim Senior Championship

I'll go for Brazil though - boring I know

[therock67]

The smart money (i.e. my money) is on Germany. Excellent strikeforce in Klose and Podolski - Klose came to the fore in the last world cup and disappeared a bit from the radar. His move to Bremen has regalvanised him and he has a superb record this year in the Bundesliga - roughly a goal a game. Podolski is shit hot.

Midfield isn't bad with the likes of Ballack and Schweinsteiger but they'll struggle at centre half.

I still think with the home crowd behind them they'll do it.

Recommended bet: Paddy Power Germany to win and Klose top scorer: 50/1

Also Germany to win and Podolski top scorer 50/1

Worth a punt: Argentina to win and Crespo top scorer 33/1

[eamo]

admin said:

The smart money (i.e. my money) is on Germany. Excellent strikeforce in Klose and Podolski - Klose came to the fore in the last world cup and disappeared a bit from the radar. His move to Bremen has regalvanised him and he has a superb record this year in the Bundesliga - roughly a goal a game. Podolski is shit hot.

Midfield isn't bad with the likes of Ballack and Schweinsteiger but they'll struggle at centre half.

I still think with the home crowd behind them they'll do it.

Recommended bet: Paddy Power Germany to win and Klose top scorer: 50/1

Also Germany to win and Podolski top scorer 50/1

Worth a punt: Argentina to win and Crespo top scorer 33/1

Klose is muck. He scored four goals against the Saudis last time around. There is a reason why he has disappeared off the radar - he is shit.

Germany to win is a shocking call. They rely completely on Ballack. Robert Huth is in defence for them for fuck sake.

I do fancy them to take England in the second round should they meet. But they will go no further.

Smart money my arse

[whyohwhy]

eamo said:

Klose is muck. He scored four goals against the Saudis last time around. There is a reason why he has disappeared off the radar - he is shit.

Top scorer in Bundesliga this season.

[therock67]

eamo said:

admin said:

The smart money (i.e. my money) is on Germany. Excellent strikeforce in Klose and Podolski - Klose came to the fore in the last world cup and disappeared a bit from the radar. His move to Bremen has regalvanised him and he has a superb record this year in the Bundesliga - roughly a goal a game. Podolski is shit hot.

Midfield isn't bad with the likes of Ballack and Schweinsteiger but they'll struggle at centre half.

I still think with the home crowd behind them they'll do it.

Recommended bet: Paddy Power Germany to win and Klose top scorer: 50/1

Also Germany to win and Podolski top scorer 50/1

Worth a punt: Argentina to win and Crespo top scorer 33/1

Klose is muck. He scored four goals against the Saudis last time around. There is a reason why he has disappeared off the radar - he is shit.

Germany to win is a shocking call. They rely completely on Ballack. Robert Huth is in defence for them for fuck sake.

I do fancy them to take England in the second round should they meet. But they will go no further.

Smart money my arse

You see that's exactly what someone who doesn't follow non-EPL soccer would write. (Somone who thinks Fowler is class, despite the fact that the guy is years past it and has never achieved as much as Klose). Klose is clearly not muck. He has scored for fun this season, has scored in the world cup (4 against the saudis maybe but they're all goals) and should be a much shorter price than he currently is to finish as top scorer. Also Germany aren't bringing Kuranyi so the strikers pick themselves and he is guaranteed a game.

[eamo]

Hang on. You dont know what football I watch or dont watch.

As a Liverpool fan I will always stick up for Robbie because as you may have gathered, he is a cult hero for a lot of Liverpool fans. I think that he will never be as good as he once was but his goal on the last day of the season coupled with that against Bolton was vintage Fowler, which suggests that all of the old Fowler hasnt gone yet.

As for Klose, I closely watched the World Cup in 2002. I saw all games Germany played and Klose was poor. He scored four of his five goals against the Saudis and the other against us. That was Germany's second game and he never scored again and Germany reached the final. Hardly quality stuff. I seem to rememeber Oleg Salenko, the former Rangers great, scoring five goals in a World Cup match and I can safely say that you wont be singing his praises.

I haven't seen much of the Bundesliga as I do not rate any league where one team has more or less dominated for the last decade or so. Also how many genuine top class players play in that league and dont play for Bayern Munich?

PS. Get over yourself with your Scottish League. Its muck and I dont only say that because I have no knowledge of any other league apart from the EPL. What a lazy and totally unfounded comment...

[therock67]

eamo said:

Hang on. You dont know what football I watch or dont watch.

When you make narrow-minded comments on the likes of Klose and Larsson then I am entitled to suspect that your interest in football is quite narrow.

eamo said:

As a Liverpool fan I will always stick up for Robbie because as you may have gathered, he is a cult hero for a lot of Liverpool fans. I think that he will never be as good as he once was but his goal on the last day of the season coupled with that against Bolton was vintage Fowler, which suggests that all of the old Fowler hasnt gone yet.

Are you for real? A performance against Bolton and a dead rubber match represent vintage Fowler - my point exactly. It's not exactly the champions league is it?

eamo said:

As for Klose, I closely watched the World Cup in 2002. I saw all games Germany played and Klose was poor. He scored four of his five goals against the Saudis and the other against us. That was Germany's second game and he never scored again and Germany reached the final. Hardly quality stuff. I seem to rememeber Oleg Salenko, the former Rangers great, scoring five goals in a World Cup match and I can safely say that you wont be singing his praises.

Klose scored 4 against the Saudis which can't be argued with. He also took his goal against Ireland very well. I was recommending him for a bet on top goalscorer in the world cup. Paddy Power won't withhold funds if he gets 4 of his goals against Costa Rica.

eamo said:

I haven't seen much of the Bundesliga as I do not rate any league where one team has more or less dominated for the last decade or so. Also how many genuine top class players play in that league and dont play for Bayern Munich?

So my assumption was right. I do know what football you do and don't watch. The Bundesliga has produced 3 winners over the last ten years exactly the same number as your beloved EPL. There are plenty of top class players in the league but frankly I'm not going to sit here and justify the Bundesliga to someone who can't be bothered watching it and doesn't "rate it". Like it or hate it I don't give a shit but try not to condemn the Bundesliga as being average or boring in the same breath as praising Fowler and EPL because it smacks of ignorance and hypocrisy.

All of which is irrelevant to Germany's chances of winning the world cup anyway.

eamo said:

PS. Get over yourself with your Scottish League. Its muck and I dont only say that because I have no knowledge of any other league apart from the EPL. What a lazy and totally unfounded comment...

You admit yourself that you don't follow either the Bundesliga or the SPL and you don't "rate them." Save us the analysis on what you don't understand then. Stick to your fawning Uncle Tom attitude to Murdoch's beloved Premiership with your overhyped, prima donnas; whatever you do make sure you don't open your mind to other leagues. Gobshite.

PS Consider yourself smited.

[eamo]

I am going to try to be reasoned here even though the blood is boiling through my veins.

Firstly this argument began with your unbeliveable comment that Germany would win the World Cup and that Klose would be top scorer. I still believe that is a crazy statement. Germany have a poor poor team and Klose is a poor poor player. You argued the merits of Klose as a player, the fact that he scored 5 goals in the last World Cup and the fact that he was top scorer in the Bundesliga this year. In between he 'went off the radar'. I said that his 5 goals in the 2002 counted for nothing as he scored four of them against hugely inferior opposition and didnt score any after the second match. I think that we can discount the World Cup as any justification of your point.

As for him being top scorer in the Bundesliga, I have said that I dont rate that league. How many German teams make it to the semis in the Champions League? Only one that I can think of with any degree of regularity and I dont think that they have been there in years. Also how many top class players are in the league? Answer the question. Rosicky at Dortmund and maybe a few others. That is it. How many top class players end up going to Germany? The Bundesliga is only a feeder league for England, Spain and Italy. Therefore being top scorer in that league is not a huge achievement.

You seem to think that I have tunnel-vision about the EPL. I say that you have tunnel vision about the SPL. You cannot accept that the SPL is a poor standard. When people criticise it you say that we are obsessed with the EPL and dont watch anything else, which is something that you dont know whether we do or not. You are using the same tactic here. You have made a shocking statement so you are turning it on me by saying that I only watch the EPL. I dont have Sky in my house so I make do with the EPL and Italian League on Setanta. In previous years I had the Italian League on Channel 4, Ole Ole on TnaG and Eurogoals on Eurosport. So I have seen all the leagues. I hated Eurogoals though as you oculd tell from watching it that the standard was poor. So I couldnt be arsed watching it again. This coupled with seeing the teams in the Champions League allows me to judge that the quality of the league is poor and hence Klose's achievement is notyhing to write home about

PS I smited the fuck out of you already

[stickywithoutjam]

I don't want to get too involved in the handbags here- but to suggest going for the home nation of the world cup as "crazy" is a bit ludicrous in itself- and as a 50/1 shot with their striker its a decent 50 cent bet- I might just dip in the savings and put some cash on.

Just think- if Germany do win you'll look like a divvie!- Rock stop bullying this poor fella!!!

[iamthelaw]

admin said:

The Bundesliga has produced 3 winners over the last ten years exactly the same number as your beloved EPL.

I believe the Bundesliga has actually produced 4 winners over the last ten years (Werder Bremen, Borussia Dortmund and FC Kaiserslautern as well as Bayern) but I think Eamo's point that Bayern have "more or less dominated for the last decade or so" is true in that Bayern have won the league 7 years out of the last 10, while the rest have one only 1 each.

In comparison the last ten years of the EPL have seen Utd win 5 times, Arsenal 3 and Chelsea 2. The EPL may be moving towards Chelsea dominance now, what with their unlimited funds, but over the last ten years I don't think one can say that any team has dominated it as Bayern have their league.

That said, on a general point I don't think it's correct to dismiss a league on the basis of one team dominating (though I see Eamo's dismissed the German league on other grounds while I've been writing my post); even if Chelsea win the EPL for the next 10 years I don't think it'd mean that the standard of the EPL would have necessarily gone down.

And I do think Germany are worth a punt for WC2006, just for being the home team.

[eamo]

iamthelaw said:

admin said:

The Bundesliga has produced 3 winners over the last ten years exactly the same number as your beloved EPL.

I believe the Bundesliga has actually produced 4 winners over the last ten years (Werder Bremen, Borussia Dortmund and FC Kaiserslautern as well as Bayern) but I think Eamo's point that Bayern have "more or less dominated for the last decade or so" is true in that Bayern have won the league 7 years out of the last 10, while the rest have one only 1 each.

In comparison the last ten years of the EPL have seen Utd win 5 times, Arsenal 3 and Chelsea 2. The EPL may be moving towards Chelsea dominance now, what with their unlimited funds, but over the last ten years I don't think one can say that any team has dominated it as Bayern have their league.

That said, on a general point I don't think it's correct to dismiss a league on the basis of one team dominating (though I see Eamo's dismissed the German league on other grounds while I've been writing my post); even if Chelsea win the EPL for the next 10 years I don't think it'd mean that the standard of the EPL would have necessarily gone down.

And I do think Germany are worth a punt for WC2006, just for being the home team.

I do take your point iamthelaw about the quality of the league not being determined by whether a team dominates. But the quality of that team has a major factor. During the last 10 years, as you have said, Bayern have won the Bundesliga seven times. During all that time they won the Champions League once on penalties, albeit they were robbed in 1999. They never really came Klose(!) on any other occassion. Therefore with a team like that dominating it is safe to say that the Bundesliga is not of a higher standard.

In conclusion what I will say is that there is no way in hell that Germany will win the World Cup

[eamo]

stickywithoutjam said:

I don't want to get too involved in the handbags here- but to suggest going for the home nation of the world cup as "crazy" is a bit ludicrous in itself- and as a 50/1 shot with their striker its a decent 50 cent bet- I might just dip in the savings and put some cash on.

Just think- if Germany do win you'll look like a divvie!- Rock stop bullying this poor fella!!!

So by your logic we should have put money on USA in 1994, with Coby Jones or whoever as top scorer..... and I am bullying the rock you gobshite... its almost an hour since my last post and where is he?

[iamthelaw]

eamo said:

During the last 10 years, as you have said, Bayern have won the Bundesliga seven times. During all that time they won the Champions League once on penalties, albeit they were robbed in 1999. They never really came Klose(!) on any other occassion. Therefore with a team like that dominating it is safe to say that the Bundesliga is not of a higher standard.

Interestingly, looking at the the last ten years' Champions League finalists, the nations measure up as follows:

Spain: 6 finalists, of which 3 winners
Italy: 5 finalists, of which 1 winner
Germany: 4 finalists, of which 2 winners
England: 3 finalists, of which 2 winners
Other: 2 finalists, of which 1 winner

(obviously I've included Arsenal and Barca just as finalists for the moment)

While English clubs have had a couple of good seasons relative to their German counterparts, I don't think one could say that the EPL has been that much stronger over the last ten years. And present performance is no guarantee of future returns.

And while one would have been unwise to place one's mortgage on the US in '94, they did do surprisingly well. I haven't checked the stats, but I would wager that host countries have generally done better as hosts than they did in the preceding World Cup.

[eamo]

iamthelaw said:

eamo said:

During the last 10 years, as you have said, Bayern have won the Bundesliga seven times. During all that time they won the Champions League once on penalties, albeit they were robbed in 1999. They never really came Klose(!) on any other occassion. Therefore with a team like that dominating it is safe to say that the Bundesliga is not of a higher standard.

Interestingly, looking at the the last ten years' Champions League finalists, the nations measure up as follows:

Spain: 6 finalists, of which 3 winners
Italy: 5 finalists, of which 1 winner
Germany: 4 finalists, of which 2 winners
England: 3 finalists, of which 2 winners
Other: 2 finalists, of which 1 winner

(obviously I've included Arsenal and Barca just as finalists for the moment)

While English clubs have had a couple of good seasons relative to their German counterparts, I don't think one could say that the EPL has been that much stronger over the last ten years. And present performance is no guarantee of future returns.

And while one would have been unwise to place one's mortgage on the US in '94, they did do surprisingly well. I haven't checked the stats, but I would wager that host countries have generally done better as hosts than they did in the preceding World Cup.

I never meant for this to be an EPL versus the Bundesliga debate. All I said was that I wouldnt put money on the top scorer in the Bundesliga becoming top scorer in the World Cup, mainly due to the fact that he is rubbish and that the Bundesliga is not of great quality

[therock67]

eamo said:

I am going to try to be reasoned here even though the blood is boiling through my veins.

Firstly this argument began with your unbeliveable comment that Germany would win the World Cup and that Klose would be top scorer. I still believe that is a crazy statement. Germany have a poor poor team and Klose is a poor poor player. You argued the merits of Klose as a player, the fact that he scored 5 goals in the last World Cup and the fact that he was top scorer in the Bundesliga this year. In between he 'went off the radar'. I said that his 5 goals in the 2002 counted for nothing as he scored four of them against hugely inferior opposition and didnt score any after the second match. I think that we can discount the World Cup as any justification of your point.

As for him being top scorer in the Bundesliga, I have said that I dont rate that league. How many German teams make it to the semis in the Champions League? Only one that I can think of with any degree of regularity and I dont think that they have been there in years. Also how many top class players are in the league? Answer the question. Rosicky at Dortmund and maybe a few others. That is it. How many top class players end up going to Germany? The Bundesliga is only a feeder league for England, Spain and Italy. Therefore being top scorer in that league is not a huge achievement.

You seem to think that I have tunnel-vision about the EPL. I say that you have tunnel vision about the SPL. You cannot accept that the SPL is a poor standard. When people criticise it you say that we are obsessed with the EPL and dont watch anything else, which is something that you dont know whether we do or not. You are using the same tactic here. You have made a shocking statement so you are turning it on me by saying that I only watch the EPL. I dont have Sky in my house so I make do with the EPL and Italian League on Setanta. In previous years I had the Italian League on Channel 4, Ole Ole on TnaG and Eurogoals on Eurosport. So I have seen all the leagues. I hated Eurogoals though as you oculd tell from watching it that the standard was poor. So I couldnt be arsed watching it again. This coupled with seeing the teams in the Champions League allows me to judge that the quality of the league is poor and hence Klose's achievement is notyhing to write home about

PS I smited the fuck out of you already

No, I made the statement that at 50/1 there was great value in backing the double of Germany to win the world cup and Klose to finish as top scorer. If you think it's such a dreadful bet then I'll happily put a fiver on with you at 50/1.

Your argument about Klose being a "poor poor" player holds no water because you concede that you haven't really seen him play. You dismiss his achievements in the Bundesliga because you "don't rate it" (which is in itself laughable) and bizarrely, in a debate about Klose's merits as a possible world cup top scorer, you discount his goals scored in the last world cup with the sweeping generalisation that it was against inferior oppposition. History has proven that it is the guys who score against "inferior opposition" who win the golden boot. That's what helps them score more goals than anyone else.

I think Iamthelaw has answered your criticisms of the Bundesliga elsewhere with reasoned and articulate arguments. Manchester United (the best club in the EPL for much of the last ten years) have had less success in Europe than Bayern Munich over the same period. Leverkusen have reached the semi-finals on a couple of occasions and indeed were in the final 4 years ago. It's really not that far behind England is it? Indeed Iamthelaw's statistics would suggest that German clubs have surpassed the achievements of English clubs in the Champions League - 3 different finalists, 2 different winners and one team reaching 2 finals. Where does that leave your golden league now?

I don't know where your argument about the SPL comes into this whole debate. You brought up the SPL - you're the one with the complex about it. I was pointing out the quality of the Bundesliga and you said "Get over yourself with your Scottish League." That was the first mention of the SPL at all in this thread and suggests you're suffering from some complex about it.

Watching Eurogoals does not count as "I've seen all the leagues." I've attended Bundesliga games and I've seen one champions league and one UEFA cup game in Germany. I've also attended league games in La Liga, the EPL, the SPL and Serie A. It's not much but I don't close my mind to any of them. I certainly don't think I'm in any position in Ireland to write off any league as being "muck."

Your narrow minded attitude to soccer, spoon-fed by a sycophantic, westbrit Irish media, leads to an ignorance when discussing global football. You don't have any legitimate grounds on which to judge Klose because you don't know him. The Bundesliga arguments are a smokescreen and a distraction from the fact that you've no idea how good he is. If you don't watch him play then he can't be any use. So have a little faith in yourself. Believe that the world doesn't exist outside your anglocentric bubble. Give me the 50/1 odds on Klose and Germany. A little humility in acknowledging the rashness of your initial arguments wouldn't go astray either.

[therock67]

eamo said:

iamthelaw said:

I believe the Bundesliga has actually produced 4 winners over the last ten years (Werder Bremen, Borussia Dortmund and FC Kaiserslautern as well as Bayern) but I think Eamo's point that Bayern have "more or less dominated for the last decade or so" is true in that Bayern have won the league 7 years out of the last 10, while the rest have one only 1 each.

In comparison the last ten years of the EPL have seen Utd win 5 times, Arsenal 3 and Chelsea 2. The EPL may be moving towards Chelsea dominance now, what with their unlimited funds, but over the last ten years I don't think one can say that any team has dominated it as Bayern have their league.

That said, on a general point I don't think it's correct to dismiss a league on the basis of one team dominating (though I see Eamo's dismissed the German league on other grounds while I've been writing my post); even if Chelsea win the EPL for the next 10 years I don't think it'd mean that the standard of the EPL would have necessarily gone down.

And I do think Germany are worth a punt for WC2006, just for being the home team.

I do take your point iamthelaw about the quality of the league not being determined by whether a team dominates. But the quality of that team has a major factor. During the last 10 years, as you have said, Bayern have won the Bundesliga seven times. During all that time they won the Champions League once on penalties, albeit they were robbed in 1999. They never really came Klose(!) on any other occassion. Therefore with a team like that dominating it is safe to say that the Bundesliga is not of a higher standard.

In conclusion what I will say is that there is no way in hell that Germany will win the World Cup

But you're missing the point again eamo. Bayern Munich have surpassed the achievements of any club from England in the Champions League in that ten years. No English team has reached two finals. So Germany's best team has surpassed the achievements of England's best team. And Germany's clubs overall have surpassed the achievements of England's clubs overall. Grow the fuck up and admit you were wrong.

[whyohwhy]

Take the Bet, eamo, go on, take it, go on. Handy Fiver

[steamboatsam]

admin said:

eamo said:

I am going to try to be reasoned here even though the blood is boiling through my veins.

Firstly this argument began with your unbeliveable comment that Germany would win the World Cup and that Klose would be top scorer. I still believe that is a crazy statement. Germany have a poor poor team and Klose is a poor poor player. You argued the merits of Klose as a player, the fact that he scored 5 goals in the last World Cup and the fact that he was top scorer in the Bundesliga this year. In between he 'went off the radar'. I said that his 5 goals in the 2002 counted for nothing as he scored four of them against hugely inferior opposition and didnt score any after the second match. I think that we can discount the World Cup as any justification of your point.

As for him being top scorer in the Bundesliga, I have said that I dont rate that league. How many German teams make it to the semis in the Champions League? Only one that I can think of with any degree of regularity and I dont think that they have been there in years. Also how many top class players are in the league? Answer the question. Rosicky at Dortmund and maybe a few others. That is it. How many top class players end up going to Germany? The Bundesliga is only a feeder league for England, Spain and Italy. Therefore being top scorer in that league is not a huge achievement.

You seem to think that I have tunnel-vision about the EPL. I say that you have tunnel vision about the SPL. You cannot accept that the SPL is a poor standard. When people criticise it you say that we are obsessed with the EPL and dont watch anything else, which is something that you dont know whether we do or not. You are using the same tactic here. You have made a shocking statement so you are turning it on me by saying that I only watch the EPL. I dont have Sky in my house so I make do with the EPL and Italian League on Setanta. In previous years I had the Italian League on Channel 4, Ole Ole on TnaG and Eurogoals on Eurosport. So I have seen all the leagues. I hated Eurogoals though as you oculd tell from watching it that the standard was poor. So I couldnt be arsed watching it again. This coupled with seeing the teams in the Champions League allows me to judge that the quality of the league is poor and hence Klose's achievement is notyhing to write home about

PS I smited the fuck out of you already

No, I made the statement that at 50/1 there was great value in backing the double of Germany to win the world cup and Klose to finish as top scorer. If you think it's such a dreadful bet then I'll happily put a fiver on with you at 50/1.

Your argument about Klose being a "poor poor" player holds no water because you concede that you haven't really seen him play. You dismiss his achievements in the Bundesliga because you "don't rate it" (which is in itself laughable) and bizarrely, in a debate about Klose's merits as a possible world cup top scorer, you discount his goals scored in the last world cup with the sweeping generalisation that it was against inferior oppposition. History has proven that it is the guys who score against "inferior opposition" who win the golden boot. That's what helps them score more goals than anyone else.

I think Iamthelaw has answered your criticisms of the Bundesliga elsewhere with reasoned and articulate arguments. Manchester United (the best club in the EPL for much of the last ten years) have had less success in Europe than Bayern Munich over the same period. Leverkusen have reached the semi-finals on a couple of occasions and indeed were in the final 4 years ago. It's really not that far behind England is it? Indeed Iamthelaw's statistics would suggest that German clubs have surpassed the achievements of English clubs in the Champions League - 3 different finalists, 2 different winners and one team reaching 2 finals. Where does that leave your golden league now?

I don't know where your argument about the SPL comes into this whole debate. You brought up the SPL - you're the one with the complex about it. I was pointing out the quality of the Bundesliga and you said "Get over yourself with your Scottish League." That was the first mention of the SPL at all in this thread and suggests you're suffering from some complex about it.

Watching Eurogoals does not count as "I've seen all the leagues." I've attended Bundesliga games and I've seen one champions league and one UEFA cup game in Germany. I've also attended league games in La Liga, the EPL, the SPL and Serie A. It's not much but I don't close my mind to any of them. I certainly don't think I'm in any position in Ireland to write off any league as being "muck."

Your narrow minded attitude to soccer, spoon-fed by a sycophantic, westbrit Irish media, leads to an ignorance when discussing global football. You don't have any legitimate grounds on which to judge Klose because you don't know him. The Bundesliga arguments are a smokescreen and a distraction from the fact that you've no idea how good he is. If you don't watch him play then he can't be any use. So have a little faith in yourself. Believe that the world doesn't exist outside your anglocentric bubble. Give me the 50/1 odds on Klose and Germany. A little humility in acknowledging the rashness of your initial arguments wouldn't go astray either.

Eamo you have officially been battered!!

[eamo]

I will take that bet.

So what I exactly am I wrong about? The fact that the Bundesliga is inferior to EPL, Seria A and La Liga? The fact that Germany havent a chance of winning the World Cup? Or the fact that Klose will not finish top scorer and is muck? They are my arguments and I will not give an inch on any of them because they are all true in my opinion.

Humility? This is the guy that says that I am wrapped up in the EPL which I take great offence to, that says I am fed by west Brit media which is the biggest insult I have ever received. From previous discussions you know that this is not true...

I say to you that you get whatever it is down from up your arse, where the rest of this forum seem to be....

[iamthelaw]

eamo said:

up your arse, where the rest of this forum seem to be....

I'm actually responding to a point of rock's, that "History has proven that it is the guys who score against "inferior opposition" who win the golden boot", but I think Eamo's point deserves highlighting, for being such complete rubbish as regards most if not all of the forum.

Anyway, as regards the golden boot, looking back over the last 20 years, winners and how they scored their goals were as follows:

2002, Ronaldo (8): 2vGer (final), 1vTur (semi), 1vBel (2nd round), 1vTur, 1vChi, 2vCostaRica (group)

1998: Suker (6): 1vHol (3rd place), 1vFra(semi), 1vGer(1/4), 1vRom(2nd), 1vJap, 1vJam (group)

1994: Stoichkov (6): 1vIta(semi), 1vGer(1/4), 1vMex(2nd), 1vArg, 2vGre (group)

1994: Salenko (6): 5vCam, 1vSwe (group)

1990: Schillachi (6): 1vEng (3rd), 1vArg(semi), 1vIre(1/4), 1vUru(2nd), 1vCze, 1vAustria(group)

1986: Lineker (6): 1vArg (1/4), 2vParaguay(2nd), 3vPoland(group)

Imo only in the case of Lineker & Salenko (2 out of the 6 winners over the period) could one say "inferior opposition" was the key factor in their success.

I'm not disputing Klose's chances of finishing top scorer, but I think the key reason is that 4 of the past 6 Golden Boots played in 7 games (ie up to final/3rd place play-off), and imo Klose has a very good chance of doing that.

[stickywithoutjam]

eamo said:

stickywithoutjam said:

I don't want to get too involved in the handbags here- but to suggest going for the home nation of the world cup as "crazy" is a bit ludicrous in itself- and as a 50/1 shot with their striker its a decent 50 cent bet- I might just dip in the savings and put some cash on.

Just think- if Germany do win you'll look like a divvie!- Rock stop bullying this poor fella!!!

So by your logic we should have put money on USA in 1994, with Coby Jones or whoever as top scorer..... and I am bullying the rock you gobshite... its almost an hour since my last post and where is he?

Or past home peformances from Uruguay, or England, or Germany, or France or achievements of South Korea, Sweden, Italy, Brazil et al whilst on their home turf- I am not getting into anything with as you are like a cornered wild animal- liable to do anything!

I'll take my leave as I must section myself at a maximum security hospital for thinking there is such an iota of a thing called home advantage in World cup soccer.

[iamthelaw]

Controversial I know, but I'm voting for Spain.

(and not just because of my avatar)

Yes, Spain has traditionally under-performed in the World Cup, but it's not the same as saying "these 11 guys have under-performed", very few if any were on the team in 1998, and there have been key changes even since 2002 when they had 3 goals disallowed against Korea.

Fantastic players all through the side, and most of them used to playing on the biggest stage with their clubs. Decent draw too; if they get past Ukraine (in the first game, where Sheva will have had the least time to recover from his injury), Tunisia & Saudi Arabia, then they'll play a team from the France/Switzerland/Korea/Togo group in the 2nd round, none of whom are too daunting either.

[pagey]

A nice little bet is South Korea to get out of their Group @ 8/1.

To win I'll go Italy and Toni to be top scorer.

[eamo]

Smashing link with all the World Cup squads. For those you dont want to read all the squads they summarise each at the bottom. I like the comment on Jenas at the bottom of the England squad.

Also Gamarra for Paraguay is one of the best defenders I have seen over the last 10 years. Anyone remember him playing against France in 1998 with a broken shoulder?

www.football365.com/features/f365_features/story_185416.shtml

[bandage]

Cracking debate gents - looking forward to getting back into when I commence my new employment next week.

A couple of random points:

Rock, like the Thommo/Ricksen avatar.

I'm also finding it very hard to pick a WC winner also but for some reason I'm drawn to Spain like Iamthelaw.

Larsson was superb last night. I also think Arsenal are suffering from some sour grapes. I felt a little sorry for Henry as in general I thought he had a very good game but at the end of the day (token cliche) he missed two gilt edged chances that could have won them the game.