The GAA Thread

[whyohwhy]

Saw Laois in the League semi-final, they were shocking, that said their midfield should dominate (Whelan will disappear as usual), providing their inside forwards with plentiful supply, cant see the Dublin backs holding them all day.
Surely Dublin wont be as shocking as they were against Longford. A full Croker will be a massive aid to the Jacks. But I reckon Laois by 3 points. 1-14 to 1-11.

Beano will be back (i think), himself and 'Munnelly the diver' will be Laois's key scorers

[bandage]

From today's Irish Times, good article:

O'Grady tells it as he sees it
Ian O'Riordan
Ian O'Riordan talks to Tipperary captain Ger O'Grady ahead of Sunday's Munster hurling final clash with Cork
What you're about to read is true. It wasn't staged or faked and none of it was off the record. It's simply Ger O'Grady denying us our daily quota of clichés and doing some straight talking instead about Sunday's Munster hurling final.

Like how Tipperary plan to handle the Cork half-back line.
"Just plough into them I suppose. Maybe hit the ball over their heads or else just keep it away from them.
"But they're fairly good, aren't they? They're one of the best half-back lines I've ever seen. But Babs has a few tricks up his sleeve. You know Babs. He's no back of a clock."

And how they plan to actually beat them. "Just keep hitting the ball into Eoin Kelly. It's obvious, isn't it? He's getting all the scores for us. Every team in Ireland has one class forward, one they can depend on, and right now Eoin is probably the best forward in Ireland. So as long as he keeps getting the scores we'll keep giving him the ball."

Or how he deals with all the pressure when living directly across from Semple Stadium. "I just go down to the local there for a pint. Babs has put a ban on the drinking all right but sure what he doesn't know can't hurt him."

And how it feels to be the first Thurles Sarsfield captain for a Munster final since the great Jimmy Doyle. "All it really means is marching around first behind the band. Brendan Cummins and Eamonn Corcoran are the boys that are heard in the dressingroom. They're the real leaders of the team. I say my few words, but I'd be trying to have the craic more than anything."

So much for playing down the hype. O'Grady - or Redser as he's called by everyone except his mother - clearly doesn't believe in building up Cork any more than they already are. Sure they'll start Sunday's game as favourites, but Tipperary haven't made the final by accident and they're deadly serious about making the most of it.

"Cork will start as favourites and deservedly so, but favourite's tags go out the window when the ball is thrown in for a Munster final."

And are Cork as good as people think sometimes?
"I don't know. We feel we have the hurlers in Tipperary to beat anyone, it's just about getting it right on the day. But we know that means we'll have to hurl as good as we've ever hurled on Sunday to beat Cork. And I mean that.

"There is a lot of talk about this Cork half-back line, and their midfield. But we can't worry too much about that. We're just worried about getting our own team right and our performance right, and if we do that I think we've a fair chance. We probably beat them in the second half last year. They hammered us in the first half, but we came back and could have nicked it in the end.

"And last year a few of us were just happy to make a Munster final. We did get caught up in the occasion. Sorting out tickets and all that. It's different this year. We're not just happy to be there. We want to win, especially in front of the home crowd. So we'll be giving it a fair lash."

If manager Michael Babs Keating was present at the press briefing in Dublin he might well have shouted stop at this stage, yet O'Grady is on a roll now and keeps on saying things exactly as he sees them. Like how Tipperary have completely turned around their National League form.

"Well that goes to show, doesn't it? I don't think the league means much. League form and championship form are completely different. We didn't have a good league campaign and we were criticised by a lot of people, including our own supporters. It's a little different now, which shows that everyone likes to get behind you when you're winning.

"But we've just kept doing things right at training, all the drills and that kind of stuff. We knew there was a big performance in us going into the Limerick game, and maybe they had shown their best form in the league. So we've had two good wins now and we're shaping up well."

Despite his candour and welcome blast of fresh air, O'Grady has had his own reality checks. He knows how Semple Stadium can be transformed into a cauldron of pressure come Munster final day, and knows exactly what it would mean for Tipperary to beat Cork on Sunday.

"I was in there as a young lad in 1990 and again 1991. I was selling programmes outside for the 1991 final and got in to see the match. And it was brilliant. We came back to beat Cork after being eight points town.

"And then in 2000 I was there again, working as a steward. When it's a full house it's an incredible place to be. And it's the traditional Munster final, Cork against Tipp. The Clare lads mightn't like to hear that, but I think it is anyway. So hopefully we can win this one.

"But living beside Semple Stadium means it's more a family atmosphere around there for me. I'd know all the neighbours fairly well, and would go into the stadium most nights for a puck around. And I can leave my window open on Saturday night and I'll be able to hear the Cork lads down the town, singing 'Rebels, Rebels . . .' But I'll sleep all right."

We feel he's probably said enough at this stage and gently pull away our dictaphones: "Is that it then? And I get nothing for that, do I?"

[bandage]

Dublin have made a few changes - primarily the long awaited switching of the excellent Bryan Cullen to centre back. It looks an altogether much stronger team than the first round and there seems to be a better balance to the forwards too even though I'm not sure 10-15 will line up in the positions selected. The Laois side is strong too - especially 5-12 - I haven't seen their new full back yet and they've a new #14 this year too who has impressed. This is really hard to call - cannot wait to attend on Sunday and enjoy from a neutral perspective. The Meath-Louth Junior game beforehand only adds to the appeal! From RTE:

Experienced duo Ray Cosgrove and Jason Sherlock will start for Dublin in Sunday's Leinster SFC semi-final clash with Laois.

Their inclusions mark the only changes manager Paul Caffrey has made to the side that narrowly beat Longford on June 4.

In the one positional switch, Bryan Cullen, who failed to score against Longford, is move from the half-forward line to centre-back with Coman Goggins shifting across to the left wing.


Making way for Cosgrove and Sherlock are Niall O'Shea and Mark Vaughan, who can count himself unfortunate as he scored the goal that was essentially the difference in the 1-12 to 0-13 win at Pearse Park.

Versatile team captain Collie Moran, midfielder Darren Magee and forward Pat Burke were not considered for selection owing to injury.

Dublin won last year's Leinster decider, beating Laois by 0-14 to 0-13. The O'Moore men are bidding to reach the Leinster final for the fourth successive year, while Caffrey's charges are hoping for their second successive final appearance.

Dublin SFC v Laois: S Cluxton; D Henry, B Cahill, P Griffin; P Casey, B Cullen, C Goggins; C Whelan, S Ryan; C Keaney, A Brogan, K Bonner; T Quinn, R Cosgrove, J Sherlock.

Laois team to play Dublin: Fergal Byron, Aidan Fennelly, Cathal Ryan, Padraig McMahon, Darren Rooney, Tom Kelly, Joe Higgins, Noel Garvan, Padraig Clancy, Ross Munnelly, Chris Conway, Billy Sheehan, Donie Brennan, Paul Lawlor, Beano McDonald

[therock67]

Is Paddy Christie on the bench for Dublin? He's played in a couple of challenge games recently so he's on the way back.

Agreed that it's a much stronger team with Cullen, Griffin and Goggins all reverting to positions which they are more naturally suited to.

[bandage]

Christie's there alright. Think the forwards look a better unit too - Keaney and Brogan are excellent then it only needs 1 or 2 of the other 4 to produce for a decent scoring tally to be achieved.

Subs: J Leonard, P Andrews, N O'Shea, D O'Callaghan, M Vaughan, S Connell, D Lally, P Christie, D Bastick, B Brogan, G Norton, D O'Mahony, R McConnell, C Prenderville, S O'Shaughnessy.

[therock67]

I see O'Shaughnessy is on the bench as well so the defence will get stronger as the campaign goes on. The attack looks better than last time out - interesting to see how Cosgrove gets on.

[iamthelaw]

whyohwhy said:

Saw Laois in the League semi-final, they were shocking, that said their midfield should dominate (Whelan will disappear as usual), providing their inside forwards with plentiful supply, cant see the Dublin backs holding them all day.
Surely Dublin wont be as shocking as they were against Longford. A full Croker will be a massive aid to the Jacks. But I reckon Laois by 3 points. 1-14 to 1-11.

Beano will be back (i think), himself and 'Munnelly the diver' will be Laois's key scorers

Laois' one-man midfield was looking good till he got injured. From there it was game over. Should give the Dublin forwards confidence after Longford. Great atmosphere, though that was always going to be the case with Dublin cruising. Am sure it'll surprise all who know me that I was actually at the game. Not jumping on any bandwagon but just to see a game before we reach the sold-out stages. Sitting in the middle of a load of Laois fans in the Lower Cusack at the Hill 16 end. Savage. All together now:
Come. On. You...

[bandage]

Very impressed with Dublin yesterday. Agree that Clancy was a big loss for Laois but even when he was on it was even enough in midfield with Dublin on top in every other sector – when he went off it simply meant Dublin were dominant in every sector. Thought the half back line was ridiculously good especially Casey who I never rated before – the amount of attacks he broke up, forays forward he made and assists he had was incredible and he topped it off with a point at the end. Cullen had a smashing game at centre back but then again he’s a class player and can play anywhere. Whelan had a big game in midfield and had much the better of his tussle with Noel Garvan which surprised me greatly and all the forwards made good contributions (3-13 from play is some return). A facet that impressed me was their support play and work rate – there was always a few options for the man in possession and not just one and their shot selection and selflessness was evident also. The Sunday Game mentioned the latter last night – usually there’ll be a few lads shooting from ridiculous angles just to try get on the scoresheet themselves to avoid being taken off or whatever but yesterday Dublin kept choosing the correct option. If there was a better placed colleague then a quick and accurate pass was played. It was even typified at the end by Vaughan when he played in Quinn for the last goal – I was sure a lad like him would go for glory himself but he didn’t. Keaney was excellent again yesterday and is now becoming the leader of their attack. All in all a super performance. I can’t see Offaly living with them in the final.

[bandage]

A preview of yesterday's game from The Laois Nationalist. This guy probably feels a bit stupid today.

The Dubs are just pretty boys
By: Denis J Croke
IN light of next Sunday’s game against Dublin I asked myself one question the other day --what would be worse, losing a Leinster semi-final to Dublin or having to listen to Joe Barrett crowing on for the next 12 months?"

You see, Joe is your typical Dub. If the sky blues win a football match, say beating the likes of Kilkenny or Wicklow, they are automatically seen as all-Ireland favourites.

"Jaysus, they was brillio. Youse culchies haven’t a snowball’s hope in hell against us."

On the other hand let Laois win a game, well that’s another story. Take the NFL this year, Laois claimed three Ulster scalps, and what was the Dub’s response.

"Feck that, sure it’s only the league. That’s just a Mickey Mouse of a competition. The others weren’t even trying."

What do they know about the beautiful sport of Gaelic football anyway the shower of Jackeen bastards?

What he forgets is that if it wasn’t for us ’culchies’ populating Dublin they wouldn’t have a team at all. Maybe it’s because so many culchies have headed up to Dublin that so many Jackeens have all migrated to the four corners of Ireland looking for a decent place to live and to learn how to play football. They’re the non-nationals of rural Ireland.

Then again, maybe it’s just as well that they have the odd cousin down the country. Without them they’d never find their way to the odd game that they are forced to play out of the capital.

It’s easy to spot the Dublin born player, he’s the male model. He’ll normally sport a healthy tan for 12 months of the year, even during the wettest, coldest days of winter. He is the one player in the changing room guaranteed to bring hair gel, shampoo and deodorant. What a shower a pansies.

And it’s just as easy to spot the Dub supporters. He’s the loud one, roaring and bawling like a demented jackass. And while we might be the rednecks they could be called the red faces, with the 15 pints of Guinness and the cider bursting out of him as he tries to climb to the top of the Hill.

These are the same supporters that haven’t been seen since the last time the Dubs had a home game in Croker. These are the same supporters who still cling onto the 30-year-old memories of Heffo’s Army. Listen boys that was the seventies this is the noughties. Time for a reality check.

The surprising thing is that the southsiders will dare venture into the forbidden territory on the other side of the Liffey. It’s even more surprising that they will be able to find their way. That is unless they have a proud culchie as a neighbour who will be able to give them directions.

Isn’t it funny when you think of the Dub’s loyalty to the ancient Heffo’s Army. They will recall with fervour every point scored by Jimmy Keavney but they suffer collective amnesia when it comes to the games they have lost, and god knows, there has been enough of them.

Let’s go back just three years. Mick O’Dwyer’s adopted children gave him a Father’s Day present to relish. Laois were 70 minutes away from a Leinster final, with just Dublin standing in the way.

On the day the O’Moore’s were simply brilliant. They took on Dublin at their own game. The worry was that Laois would not be able to match the Dubs physically. After all they had the dream team midfield partnership of Whelan and Magee, who were just about as useful as two lighthouses in the middle of a bog on the day.

The Dublin dream was turned into a nightmare as Clancy and Garvan stood up to the test and passed their exam with flying colours.

It’ll be the same on Sunday and the Dubs will blame the ref, the pitch, even the Laois supporters. They’re a bit like Murphy’s dog, they can give it but can’t take it.

[Ball Ox]

I think Dubllin are in with a shout this year. They looked fitter yesterday than in previous years and the marking was much tighter. Plus some of the Northern teams have shown signs of not being at their best (armagh and tyrone).

Also I have noticed that there is a surprisingly large number of draws in GAA. I think if you were to look at it statistically / mathematically there are far more draws than would be expected when you take the average scores of a game (eg around 30 points), to think that we get so many draws when you consider the permutations available. I also think that this may be related to the fact that the GAA is an amateur organisation and the prospects of a replay/big payday are too much to pass. I think that referees seem to be encouraged to blow up early

[timofte]

I was just wondering what peoples opinions of the back door/ qualifiers in the hurling is. See this article in Tuesdays Irish Times. I definitely think the current system gives rise to meaningless games but the old system wasn't much use to Waterford or Wexford in 2004. I don't know what they can do to improve the system in place, there are just too few strong counties at the moment making the championship very predictable. Any thoughts?

Call for overhaul gets mixed reaction
Seán Moran, GAA Correspondent

There are mixed reactions to the call of Cork manager John Allen for provincial hurling champions to be allowed progress straight to the All-Ireland semi-finals. Allen was speaking after his team retained their Munster title after a gripping final in Thurles against a battling Tipperary.

Instead of having until August to prepare for a semi-final, Cork now must focus on a quarter-final in four weeks.

Ironically the current system that provides for two qualifier groups and four All-Ireland quarter-finals between the top eight teams in the country was introduced partly in response to provincial winners' concerns about the lengthy gap between winning Leinster and Munster and the All-Ireland semi-finals.

But that was two years ago when Waterford and Wexford had scored rare successes by recent standards and lost semi-finals to Kilkenny and Cork, who came through the old qualifier system with plenty of match practice under their belts.

Mick Kinsella comes at this issue from a couple of interested angles. Wexford county secretary, a selector with senior manager Séamus Murphy and a member of the new Hurling Development Committee, he points out that the HDC will be considering this as part of its review of inter-county competitive structures but sees the automatic semi-final berth as being of particular value to stronger counties.

"It wouldn't suit the less fashionable counties but it would be a good idea for those that regularly win provincial titles. It's very difficult to come up with a structure for a competition for eight or nine teams and at this stage you'd have to question whether any more should be involved.

"But clearly this is something that we will be discussing when the current system is up for review."

Ger Loughnane, however, was a member of the HDC that introduced the current system for a two-year trial and the former Clare All-Ireland winning manager feels that they got it wrong. "We made a mistake when setting up the new system. The Ring and Rackard Cups (for the second and third-tier counties) were a good idea but the qualifier system has not been a success and needs an overhaul. Any system that penalises the provincial winners has to be looked at.

"It's quite possible for Cork as Munster champions to draw Galway in the quarter-finals while Clare - a team that Cork beat well in the Munster championship - end up getting Wexford. There's no comparison between Galway and Wexford, for instance."

Loughnane also believes that there aren't sufficient teams to support the new quarter-final format and that the need to find eight counties is distorting the qualifier groups.

"I'm very much in agreement with John Allen about this. My own view is that only one team should emerge from each of the qualifier groups and they would play the provincial finalists with the provincial champions going straight through to the All-Ireland semi-finals. There's no point in having four quarter-finals just for the sake of having four quarter-finals and when you don't have eight quarter-finalists. This year two of the games will involve Wexford and either Limerick or Offaly. I can't see them being competitive.

"Can you imagine the crowd that would go to next Sunday's Waterford-Galway match if it was effectively knockout? It would be much more competitive and would keep the provincial championships honest."

The question of whether the provincial championships are suffering a loss of status because of the qualifier mechanism, which allows teams back in after losing matches is another concern. Kinsella disputes this theory, pointing out that the recent Munster final contradicts such suggestions.

"I wouldn't think so. On Sunday they (Cork and Tipperary) fought tooth and nail for every single ball. Wexford will be the same this weekend and although Kilkenny seem to treat it in a casual way after they've won, they take great pride in winning it."

His belief is borne out by the 10 years of provincial hurling finals since second-chance structures were originally introduced. The majority have been well contested and virtually all exceptions to this trend have arisen because of Kilkenny's dominance in Leinster.

But Loughnane counters that provincial finals aren't the problem. It's the comparative comfort zone for teams who get beaten in the early stages of the championships.

"There's no danger of the provincial finals not being genuine," he says. "It's farther back, say in the Munster championship where teams can face two hard matches to get to a provincial final and an All-Ireland quarter-final - or they can lose in early May and prepare for the qualifiers, which more or less guarantees them the same reward."
© The Irish Times

[iamthelaw]

Having just seen the replays on The Sunday Game, unlike the Rooney incident, thought Mattie Forde's stamp on the head of the Offaly defender this afternoon looked deliberate; he had a look down before placing his feet & used more downward pressure than would normally be the case.

Peter Clohessy got a 6-month ban for a similar offence in 1996 & the GAA's response will say a lot about their attitude to an act that could easily have caused a very serious injury.

[bandage]

Was very disappointed that he did it to be honest. We actually had won the free for their player overcarrying the ball and nobody initially picked up on the incident at all in the ground. The GAA have a policy of not showing replays of controversial incidents on the big screens in the ground but as nobody was aware of what had happened the replay was shown twice and the biffs went absolutely ballistic in the crowd which was acceptable enough I suppose. Forde then showed his class by upping his game after that. Thought he was immense in the second half and knocked up some class points. Lost it in the full back line and through poor option taking in possession (shooting from silly angles, ignoring better placed colleagues, giving away needless frees, running down blind alleys etc etc.) We owned the ball but they were like a really good soccer team on the break - they isolated the two corner forwards and moved the ball swiftly into them and they caused untold damage. Thought Bealo could have remedied the problems in the full back line but 2, 3 and 4 were all on the pitch at the end. It's really gutting because we're not going the win the All Ireland but a Leinster was very achievable. Still don't want us to go out with a whimper next week - would love to see us regroup for the qualifiers and get a run going and maybe a crack at one of the big guns. Haven't heard anything yet today but I assume we'll be planning without Forde.

[bandage]

I know it's no defence but I meant to say the Offaly backs were dishing it out a bit too. Forde was getting some punishment off the ball but no more than a player if his quality usually gets in a game with an important prize on offer. There seemed to be a lot of verbal goading too and what pissed me off terribly was when Rory Stafford drilled that late shot into the side netting and was on the ground after it Ciaran McManus runs over and stands over him screaming abuse at him. All this after Stafford dominated midfield again and got the better of his duel with McManus by far.

[humbug]

fockoffrangers said:

I think Dubllin are in with a shout this year. They looked fitter yesterday than in previous years and the marking was much tighter. Plus some of the Northern teams have shown signs of not being at their best (armagh and tyrone).

Also I have noticed that there is a surprisingly large number of draws in GAA. I think if you were to look at it statistically / mathematically there are far more draws than would be expected when you take the average scores of a game (eg around 30 points), to think that we get so many draws when you consider the permutations available. I also think that this may be related to the fact that the GAA is an amateur organisation and the prospects of a replay/big payday are too much to pass. I think that referees seem to be encouraged to blow up early

Referees don't blow up early because in inter-county games the amount of injury time to be played is shown up on a board before full-time. However, I have noticed referees giving softish frees in kickable positions to teams who are a point down in injury time.

[Ball Ox]

Excuse me I have seen several games where the refs blew up when say two and a half minutes out of three were up just becuase teh teams are level. Im not trying to stir it but it think that it wholly unprofessional (and yes i know its an amatuer sport - still doesnt preclude them from acting professionally) and is typical of the non sense, goodwill attitude that often manifests in Irish sport. Fook it, just go and win the fookin match, forget about being nice.

[humbug]

fockoffrangers said:

Excuse me I have seen several games where the refs blew up when say two and a half minutes out of three were up just becuase teh teams are level.

I have never seen this.

[Ball Ox]

OK lets put a bet on so. Heres what i suggest:

Out of the next three games which finish in a draw (hurling and football) I will bet you that at least one will be blown up at least 30 seconds before the stipulated time.

Fair?

[therock67]

fockoffrangers said:

OK lets put a bet on so. Heres what i suggest:

Out of the next three games which finish in a draw (hurling and football) I will bet you that at least one will be blown up at least 30 seconds before the stipulated time.

Fair?

I'll take that bet if Humbug doesn't want to but I'm sure he does.

Ye should establish some parameters first:

1. Next 3 championship games or next 3 live on RTE games?
2. Are ye going to check the RTE clock to see if it was started on time or will you just accept their timing?

[Ball Ox]

admin said:

fockoffrangers said:

OK lets put a bet on so. Heres what i suggest:

Out of the next three games which finish in a draw (hurling and football) I will bet you that at least one will be blown up at least 30 seconds before the stipulated time.

Fair?

I'll take that bet if Humbug doesn't want to but I'm sure he does.

Ye should establish some parameters first:

1. Next 3 championship games or next 3 live on RTE games?
2. Are ye going to check the RTE clock to see if it was started on time or will you just accept their timing?

Im going to say next three RTE games that end in a draw, not just the next three RTE games, OK?
I have never seen an RTE clock start at anything other than zero, and i dont think we've any choice but to accept the timing

[therock67]

Yeah I meant the next 3 RTE games that end in a draw - but what I'm asking is do they have to be live or will ye accept Sunday Game highlights?

Sometimes RTE don't start the clock when the ball is kicked off/thrown in because the guy at the controls is asleep on the job. I've seen them be out by 20 seconds or so - highly unlikely though.

[Ball Ox]

Its easier to accept the live games, i dont think the Sunday game shows the times, not sure anyhow.
Fair point re the times, im willing to accept this as unlikely and proceed with the bet on this basis.
Also a further point is to put a timescale on this, I suggest that if there are not three drawn live games bythe end of the championship/All Ireland the bet is void.

You want a piece of the action?

I suggest that the looser of the bet has to exalt the winner every day for a month??

[therock67]

1. I'll let humbug take the bet - it's his contention in the first place and I'd imagine he'll be happy to take it. If he doesn't want to, come back to me.

2. The bet should be monetary

3. The highlights games will be repeated in full on Setanta so they'd have full times then. 3 live draws may not happen.

[bandage]

It happened to us in the AI semi final against Tipp in 2001. We were 1-09 to 0-05 down at half time. Driven by two Larry O'Gorman goals we got back into it. We got another goal near the end and the ref signalled 4 mins injury time. They looked gone mentally and physically and we were coming at them in waves but he blew up for a draw after 2 and a bit mins. Of course the replay was where Liam Dunne and Mitch Jordan were sent off before half time and they took us handily enough. Would have had a great chance against Galway in that final - mediocre though we were.

[humbug]

admin said:

1. I'll let humbug take the bet - it's his contention in the first place and I'd imagine he'll be happy to take it. If he doesn't want to, come back to me.

2. The bet should be monetary

3. The highlights games will be repeated in full on Setanta so they'd have full times then. 3 live draws may not happen.

I'm happy to accept the bet on whatever parameters therock67 agrees on my behalf. I'd be happy to put money on it as well if you like.

If the referee blows up after the stipulated time then that's no good to you.