Ireland's Greatest Ever Sportstar?

[eamo]

admin said:

eamo said:

I heard an interview with her recently where she was talking about her applying for Oz citizenship. She said that it was only due to the fact that she wanted to run in the Commonwealth
Games. It was, in her opinion, the most competitive event around at the time. She said if Ireland was in it she would have won for them.

Aren't we privileged? If we simply renege on 800 years of resistance and revolution and apply to be part of Britain's glorious commonwealth then Sonia will run for us again. Fuck off bitch.

I think you are letting other issues cloud your judgement here....

[therock67]

briantinnion said:

Without a shadow of a doubt Liam Dunne. The man is an inspiration. Reading his book had me in tears, the dignity in the way he finished his career, the determination to get back to the highest level at 35. Running on the beach at 6am, up and down Vinegar Hill. You need only at the players that are happy to retire at 29/30 to see his greatness. Or even look at the current Wexford panel, Andrew Kavanagh Barry Lambert et al remember: it was a privelege I was told to wear the purple and gold.

He's not finished yet either, mark my words, Dunne will lead Wexford to another All-Ireland in the next 6/7 years. These are dark days on Slaneyside but with someone like Dunne involved there's always hope.

Old news to some but I can't let that pass without sharing a moment myself and Bandage shared a couple of years ago after Dunne's book was published:

Allow me if you will to present my arguments against Liam Dunne in a reasoned and considered manner.

My disappointment with the book stems from the fact that this was an opportunity for Dunne to wipe the slate clean, display remorse for the foolish actions of battle and to explain but not excuse such deeds. In that respect I, and hurling fans across the breadth of the country, anticipated an engaging and insightful read into what drives a hurler like Liam Dunne.

Therefore, it reflects very badly on Dunne that he insists to not having caused the injury to Gary Kirby deliberately. In previous correspondence I have conceded that I have little or no interest in Limerick hurling and have no great respect for that team. What is unmistakable however is the extent to which Limerick relied on Gary Kirby for scores. I won't bore any of us with statistics on Kirby's scoring rate for the senior hurlers but I think it is undisputable that Limerick were probably over-reliant on the Patrickswell man. With the likes of Quiad, McDonagh, Foley and the magnificent Carey, Limerick had a back line that would keep any attack quiet. Their shortcomings lay in the fact that they only had one focal point for their attack, Mr. Gary Kirby.

Wexford's tactics were all too obvious. Dunne by this stage had made something of a name for himself as a tough competitor. He had no qualms about marking bigger guys because he enojoyed the battle. However, Kirby was in a rich vein of form. An all-star in 1995 and 1994 and destined to be an all-star again that year. So when the first ball came into the great man Dunne panicked. A wild pull at best, a callous attempt to injure a fine hurler is a more likely scenario. Kirby has since admitted that with Dunne's reputation maybe he shouldn't have tried catching the first ball that came his way as Dunne was always going to take whatever opportunity came his way to end Kirby's contribution to the match. What is damning about Dunne's actions is that he could not have played the ball from the angle of his swing. Had he broken Kirby's catching hand one could have attributed the injury to dangerous pulling, but argued that it was reckless as opposed to sinister. However, the three fingers Kirby had smashed on him were on his hurl-holding hand. So the direction of the pull would never have gone near the ball. And with that the course of history was changed. Changed utterly.

What is most galling about Dunne is his selected repentance. He acknowledges fully the wrongdoing of 2002 when he was red-carded for a disgraceful swing on Comerford(?). He has little problem acknowledging this act of violence now. It's easy to condemn the actions of 2002 however, because they led to nothing. (Indeed they probably contributed to victory for a struggling Kilkenny side). They don't tarnish a piece of silver on the mantlepiece.
What he is afraid of doing is to admit the truth about 1996. That his medal was won on the back of some serious cynical and violent actions.

I am not condemning the man for his actions. I understand how violence occurs in sport and how on occassion a more skillful player needs to be brought back down to earth. What I despise is that Dunne enjoyed the tag of being a tough little man. And he admits to having cleaned out fellas in the past. But refuses to admit to the self-same crime in 1996.

All this behaviour was in marked contrast to the more mature displays from Dunne in his final season of 2003. He hurled that year with more grace and honesty than at any other stage of his career. Were that he had done the same in '96.

I remember sitting with bandage in a pub in Limerick city before a Bell X1 gig.
The tavern was adorned with hurling memorabilia. And there was one relic that summed up everything about that team. A memento that had been tarnished over the years and had aged badly. It was a washed up hurler sitting forlornly at the bar. The great Ciaran Carey. He and Kirby were the two genuine stars of the Limerick side of the mid 90s. Neither has a medal to show for it. You could hardly bring yourself to look at the man in the eye.

[briantinnion]

A well thought out arguement therock67, you make some valid points. To be honest, I know Dunne was a little prick, but he was our little prick, I would have hated him if he had been from Cork or Tipp. I don't expect anyone to agree with my nomination apart from bandage but I just wanted to put him up there anyway.

[therock67]

eamo said:

admin said:

Aren't we privileged? If we simply renege on 800 years of resistance and revolution and apply to be part of Britain's glorious commonwealth then Sonia will run for us again. Fuck off bitch.

I think you are letting other issues cloud your judgement here....

Far from it. Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson should simply not be a mercenary. She chose to run for another country so good riddance. As far as I'm concerned she should no longer count herself as Irish and implying she would consider herself Irish if the circumstances were right is ludicrous. Give me Kevin Nolan any day over that whore.

[eamo]

admin said:

eamo said:

I think you are letting other issues cloud your judgement here....

Far from it. Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson should simply not be a mercenary. She chose to run for another country so good riddance. As far as I'm concerned she should no longer count herself as Irish and implying she would consider herself Irish if the circumstances were right is ludicrous. Give me Kevin Nolan any day over that whore.

It's funny that you should call her that because that is exactly what a priest in Ballinamore in Leitrim called her in his sermon because she was unmarried and had a kid. I draw similar inferences between you and him for outlandish comments.

I think you are going ever so slightly over the top by calling her a mercenary. She represented Ireland for her whole life, was the victim of an absolute joke of a regime, won more medals than any other Irish athlete ever and decided to take an advantage of a loophole so she could run at a higher level. That is all.

She is not choosing to be Irish 'if the circumstances were right'. She has always been, and always will be, Irish but she just wants to run in a bloody race. Get over yourself will you and stop blowing it out of all proportion.

Whatever you want to say about her, she is the most sucessful Irish sportsperson ever, achieved despite the backing of a joke of an organisation.

[eamo]

eamo said:

admin said:

Far from it. Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson should simply not be a mercenary. She chose to run for another country so good riddance. As far as I'm concerned she should no longer count herself as Irish and implying she would consider herself Irish if the circumstances were right is ludicrous. Give me Kevin Nolan any day over that whore.

Some could call Roy Keane a mercenary for walking out on his country before a World Cup.

[therock67]

eamo said:

admin said:

Far from it. Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson should simply not be a mercenary. She chose to run for another country so good riddance. As far as I'm concerned she should no longer count herself as Irish and implying she would consider herself Irish if the circumstances were right is ludicrous. Give me Kevin Nolan any day over that whore.

It's funny that you should call her that because that is exactly what a priest in Ballinamore in Leitrim called her in his sermon because she was unmarried and had a kid. I draw similar inferences between you and him for outlandish comments.

I think you are going ever so slightly over the top by calling her a mercenary. She represented Ireland for her whole life, was the victim of an absolute joke of a regime, won more medals than any other Irish athlete ever and decided to take an advantage of a loophole so she could run at a higher level. That is all.

She is not choosing to be Irish 'if the circumstances were right'. She has always been, and always will be, Irish but she just wants to run in a bloody race. Get over yourself will you and stop blowing it out of all proportion.

Whatever you want to say about her, she is the most sucessful Irish sportsperson ever, achieved despite the backing of a joke of an organisation.

The last sentence simply isn't true. I despise Michelle Smyth but she is clearly a more successful sportsperson by any baromoter.

I'm not sure how you could argue that she isn't a mercenary - not trying to be smart here but a mercenary is (as defined by Webster's) "one that serves merely for wages; especially : a soldier hired into foreign service." O'Sullivan fits the bill as she complained about the lack of grants and then chose to ply her trade with another country in order to avail of better opportunities. You might be able to tolerate that and that's fine for you but I cannot believe that the person we choose as Ireland's best ever sports person would be somebody who elected to run for another country because it suited her.

It's not even like she wasn't selected for the commonwealth games. She isn't eligible if she's Irish. The vast majority of world class athletes are not eligible to participate so what makes Sonia special? Just her jumped up sense of self-importance and a fawning Irish public cheered on by Mary Robinson with a little handbag sized tricolour with Mná na hÉireann scrawled on it. And that's the pinnacle of Irish sport? That sir is an embarrassment.

[eamo]

admin said:

eamo said:

Just her jumped up sense of self-importance and a fawning Irish public cheered on by Mary Robinson with a little hanbag sized tricolour with Mná na hÉireann scrawled on it. And that's the pinnacle of Irish sport? That sir is an embarrassment.

So who else have you got?

My point is that I dont care about her running for Australia because I simply think that she has done enough while representing Ireland, against all the odds, to merit her inclusion as Ireland's greatest sportstar. I dont share your views on why she declared for Australia, I believe that it was for purely professional reasons.

I dont mean to dwell on this but I am fed up of people begrudging others who have had success. O'Sullivan carried our hopes for ages, on the whole she delivered and then when she messes up she is called a bottler or useless or whatever. We as Irish people like to cut the successful down to earth.

PS I don't like Mary Robinson

[steamboatsam]

admin said:

briantinnion said:

Without a shadow of a doubt Liam Dunne. The man is an inspiration. Reading his book had me in tears, the dignity in the way he finished his career, the determination to get back to the highest level at 35. Running on the beach at 6am, up and down Vinegar Hill. You need only at the players that are happy to retire at 29/30 to see his greatness. Or even look at the current Wexford panel, Andrew Kavanagh Barry Lambert et al remember: it was a privelege I was told to wear the purple and gold.

He's not finished yet either, mark my words, Dunne will lead Wexford to another All-Ireland in the next 6/7 years. These are dark days on Slaneyside but with someone like Dunne involved there's always hope.

Old news to some but I can't let that pass without sharing a moment myself and Bandage shared a couple of years ago after Dunne's book was published:

Allow me if you will to present my arguments against Liam Dunne in a reasoned and considered manner.

My disappointment with the book stems from the fact that this was an opportunity for Dunne to wipe the slate clean, display remorse for the foolish actions of battle and to explain but not excuse such deeds. In that respect I, and hurling fans across the breadth of the country, anticipated an engaging and insightful read into what drives a hurler like Liam Dunne.

Therefore, it reflects very badly on Dunne that he insists to not having caused the injury to Gary Kirby deliberately. In previous correspondence I have conceded that I have little or no interest in Limerick hurling and have no great respect for that team. What is unmistakable however is the extent to which Limerick relied on Gary Kirby for scores. I won't bore any of us with statistics on Kirby's scoring rate for the senior hurlers but I think it is undisputable that Limerick were probably over-reliant on the Patrickswell man. With the likes of Quiad, McDonagh, Foley and the magnificent Carey, Limerick had a back line that would keep any attack quiet. Their shortcomings lay in the fact that they only had one focal point for their attack, Mr. Gary Kirby.

Wexford's tactics were all too obvious. Dunne by this stage had made something of a name for himself as a tough competitor. He had no qualms about marking bigger guys because he enojoyed the battle. However, Kirby was in a rich vein of form. An all-star in 1995 and 1994 and destined to be an all-star again that year. So when the first ball came into the great man Dunne panicked. A wild pull at best, a callous attempt to injure a fine hurler is a more likely scenario. Kirby has since admitted that with Dunne's reputation maybe he shouldn't have tried catching the first ball that came his way as Dunne was always going to take whatever opportunity came his way to end Kirby's contribution to the match. What is damning about Dunne's actions is that he could not have played the ball from the angle of his swing. Had he broken Kirby's catching hand one could have attributed the injury to dangerous pulling, but argued that it was reckless as opposed to sinister. However, the three fingers Kirby had smashed on him were on his hurl-holding hand. So the direction of the pull would never have gone near the ball. And with that the course of history was changed. Changed utterly.

What is most galling about Dunne is his selected repentance. He acknowledges fully the wrongdoing of 2002 when he was red-carded for a disgraceful swing on Comerford(?). He has little problem acknowledging this act of violence now. It's easy to condemn the actions of 2002 however, because they led to nothing. (Indeed they probably contributed to victory for a struggling Kilkenny side). They don't tarnish a piece of silver on the mantlepiece.
What he is afraid of doing is to admit the truth about 1996. That his medal was won on the back of some serious cynical and violent actions.

I am not condemning the man for his actions. I understand how violence occurs in sport and how on occassion a more skillful player needs to be brought back down to earth. What I despise is that Dunne enjoyed the tag of being a tough little man. And he admits to having cleaned out fellas in the past. But refuses to admit to the self-same crime in 1996.

All this behaviour was in marked contrast to the more mature displays from Dunne in his final season of 2003. He hurled that year with more grace and honesty than at any other stage of his career. Were that he had done the same in '96.

I remember sitting with bandage in a pub in Limerick city before a Bell X1 gig.
The tavern was adorned with hurling memorabilia. And there was one relic that summed up everything about that team. A memento that had been tarnished over the years and had aged badly. It was a washed up hurler sitting forlornly at the bar. The great Ciaran Carey. He and Kirby were the two genuine stars of the Limerick side of the mid 90s. Neither has a medal to show for it. You could hardly bring yourself to look at the man in the eye.

i don't want to rehash the arguments that i'm sure bandage has already made on this point but i shall make one point:-

any player with half a pea-sized brain will not put his hand up to catch a 50/50 ball without protecting his hand (this is taught at u10 level), particularly if you know the guy you're marking is standing behind and is too short to compete for the catch - he has no option but to pull which is a delicate skill in itself and well within the rules.

Your point about the hand injured being his hurl-holding hand is irrelevant because if you watch Kirby play, you will notice his unorthodox style whereby he always seeks to catch the ball with this his hurl holding hand (or "strong hand" in hurling parlance). My point being, Dunnes's swing wasn't so wild as to have hit the hand while he was holding the hurl, as you must be assuming. The hand in question was raised above his head in attempt to win the ball - unprotected and foolish. Dunne did no wrong.

[therock67]

eamo said:

admin said:

eamo said:

Just her jumped up sense of self-importance and a fawning Irish public cheered on by Mary Robinson with a little hanbag sized tricolour with Mná na hÉireann scrawled on it. And that's the pinnacle of Irish sport? That sir is an embarrassment.

So who else have you got?

My point is that I dont care about her running for Australia because I simply think that she has done enough while representing Ireland, against all the odds, to merit her inclusion as Ireland's greatest sportstar. I dont share your views on why she declared for Australia, I believe that it was for purely professional reasons.

I dont mean to dwell on this but I am fed up of people begrudging others who have had success. O'Sullivan carried our hopes for ages, on the whole she delivered and then when she messes up she is called a bottler or useless or whatever. We as Irish people like to cut the successful down to earth.

PS I don't like Mary Robinson

We as Irish sports fans don't actually have many successful people to cut down to earth in the first place.

O'Sullivan carried our hopes for years and personally I feel she let me down. I watched her cruising to victories on the European circuit and I thought she was a geniune class act. When it came to the big shows though she invariably let us down.

I don't think sportspeople should choose their country for "purely professional reasons" and I have less respect for those who do so. I have next to no support for those sportspeople who represent a country for fifteen years and then in the blink of an eye switch allegiances for more favourable terms. It smacks of disloyalty and in truth it's hard to dress it up as anything else.

As for who else I'd pick - well you've had 4 votes so far in your poll from over 30 replies. Most people have suggested alternatives like Best, McGrath, Giles, McCoy, any GAA footballer you care to mention, Roche etc.

PS I don't mind Mary Robinson.

[iamthelaw]

eamo said:

So who else have you got?

Biog on Dr Pat O'Callaghan:

"In 1927 he made his hammer-throwing debut in Dublin. The following year at the Olympic Games in Amsterdam he won the hammer-throwing championship. Thus he became the first person to win a gold medal while representing Irish Free State. He retained his record four years later at the Olympics in Los Angeles where he won Ireland's second gold medal. He was not allowed to compete at the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin because the International Amateur Athletic Federation refused to recognise the Irish association.

During his career Dr. O'Callaghan won six Irish championships: the hammer, shot, discus, 56 lb (25 kg) shot for height and for distance, and high jump. He achieved an unofficial world record for the hammer with a throw of 195 feet 5 inches (59.55 m) in 1937 at the Cork county championships, but as the IAAF still refused to recognise the Irish association, the throw was not accepted. It stood unofficially until 1949."

Given that he would have been only 31 years old in 1936, and throwers often have long careers, had politics not intervened in 1936 & 1940 Pat O'Callaghan could well have been an Irish Al Oerter.

Given that the good doctor was born in Kanturk, one could argue that Sonia isn't even Cork's greatest athlete.

[bondage]

Resurrecting this one to predict a one day all time great. Derval O'Rourke is gonna be great and fair fooks to her. Outstanding, straight talking athlete. 2nd yest at the Europeans despite a fooked up preparation due to injury.

Only pity is she's from Cork.

[bandage]

bondage said:

Resurrecting this one to predict a one day all time great. Derval O'Rourke is gonna be great and fair fooks to her. Outstanding, straight talking athlete. 2nd yest at the Europeans despite a fooked up preparation due to injury.

Only pity is she's from Cork.

Is it correct to say she ran a personal best in the final? If so, fair play to her. At least she delivered on the big occasion. Fed up of Irish people choking on the world stage like Harrington in majors, O'Sullivan etc? Our only real current world stars as far as I can see are AP McCoy, O'Driscoll and Matty Forde.

I know we should concentrate on O'Rourke's athletic prowess but what's the consensus looks wise? She can look like a right ming bag at times but I know of people who find her attractive. That Swedish bint that took the gold was a bit of alright.

[steamboatsam]

absolute munter. very few decent looking athletes as they're all so fooking thin and have no top tens

[bondage]

Just read the therock on Dunne, fookin libelous comments. Watch the video. Where was Kirby pulling, not too much higher than Dunne and in his face if anything. Kirby wasn't trying to catch ball, he too was pulling. An idiotic thing to do, first ball in All Ireland final standing open to Dunne's pulling side. What did he expect? Dunne to try and catch it? Idiot. Respect to all sportsmen but that lad should let go. They blew it. Twice, and its not all Liam Dunne's fault. Hurling is littered with heroes who overcame niggles like that to lead their men to greatness. Lohan's ripped hamstring in 95 final, Larry O singlehandedly repelling the biffos with a broken thumb. And we still hear about that broken knuckle.

Liam Dunne legend.

[bandage]

bondage said:

Just read the theock on Dunne, fookin libelous comments. Watch the video. Where was Kirby pulling, not too much higher than Dunne and in his face if anything. Kirby wasn't trying to catch ball, he too was pulling. An idiotic thing to do, first ball in All Ireland final standing open to Dunne's pulling side. What did he expect? Dunne to try and catch it? Idiot. Respect to all sportsmen but that lad should let go. They blew it. Twice, and its not all Liam Dunne's fault. Hurling is littered with heroes who overcame niggles like that to lead their men to greatness. Lohan's ripped hamstring in 95 final, Larry O singlehandedly repelling the biffos with a broken thumb. And we still hear about that broken knuckle.

Liam Dunne legend.

What he said.

I think we can probably conclude now from the votes and with the thread being very old that Liam Dunne is the greatest Irish sportsperson of all time. A well deserved award for the legend that he is. If you disagree then my ass.

[Tiger]

Liam Dunne? Is it a piss take??

I like the man and all and love wexford gaa but jaysus he surely cant be regarded as the best ever sportsman, It would be fine if it was wexfords greatest sportsman but irelands? nah has to be a piss take!

[The Runt's green jumper]

flawed poll...no Paul O Connell, no Brian Lohan and no Johnny Giles

[tiger]

No golfers either. As much as i like the man..noway can liam dunne be considered in that poll. henry shefflin ok but liam dunne? nah

[The Runt's green jumper]

billy byrne didn't get a mention, neither did DOC

[plasticsheeting]

that because the`re utter tripe

[The Puke is a gobshite]

Nov 15, 2008 20:55:49 GMT The Runt's green jumper said:

flawed poll...no Paul O Connell, no Brian Lohan and no Johnny Giles

Ginger over rated Munster men weren't allowed into the poll