Ireland's Greatest Ever Sportstar?

[eamo]

Have I missed anyone really obvious?

Sonia gets my vote for being the best at her sport is a country where the sport gets no attention. She did us proud.

Can therock67 confirm whether or not he likes or dislikes Ken Doherty? I seem to remember a conversation where, in passing, he said that he hated him. I, for the record, think that he is a legend.

[stickywithoutjam]

Should a distinguishing factor of Ireland's all time greats not be that he/she is still Irish?- not to discount Sonia's previous service.

[stickywithoutjam]

No jockeys?- then again that asks the question is horse racing a sport, refer to previous threads

[eamo]

stickywithoutjam said:

Should a distinguishing factor of Ireland's all time greats not be that he/she is still Irish?- not to discount Sonia's previous service.

She is Irish - she only claimed to be Australian so she could run at the Commonwealth Games and get some good competition at the age of 35

[stickywithoutjam]

Did you think this list out properly?

[iamthelaw]

eamo said:

Have I missed anyone really obvious?

George Best? Unless we're talking 26 counties he surely must be in there.

Interestingly, RTE held a poll during the last Olympics to find Ireland's greatest Olympian, and Sonia finished 5th. Can't remember who was 3 & 4, probably Delaney & Carruth, possibly Dr Pat O'Callaghan, but 2 was Mary Peters, & 1 was Michelle Smith.

Also, no Gaelic footballers? No golfers?

[stickywithoutjam]

eamo said:

stickywithoutjam said:

Should a distinguishing factor of Ireland's all time greats not be that he/she is still Irish?- not to discount Sonia's previous service.

She is Irish - she only claimed to be Australian so she could run at the Commonwealth Games and get some good competition at the age of 35

A true patriot then.

[iamthelaw]

stickywithoutjam said:

No jockeys?- then again that asks the question is horse racing a sport, refer to previous threads

One might argue the horses should be included. After all the poll is for Ireland's Greatest Ever Sportstar, not (say) Sportsperson.

[stickywithoutjam]

Where's the room for Keith Wood?- Eamo, stick to the 98FM text votes, that selection is pish.

[therock67]

No cyclists which is interesing - have you overlooked them or do you believe their achievements have been tainted by drugs allegations? What Roche achieved in 1987 was incredible. I wouldn't vote for him because of what has emerged since but I'd certainly subscribe to the view that drug taking was rife throughout the sport and his victories were a huge achievement in any context.

I presume Eamonn Dunphy is not a genuine inclusion? He hardly ranks alongside Giles, McGrath or Brady who have all been omitted.

I don't think I ever said I hated Ken Doherty. I may have called him a bottler which I think is true. Plenty of games he has within his grasp and he fucks up simple chances. Either he bottles it or his concentration is poor. On the plus side he is a geniunely funny guy. I met him at the airport a few years ago and he said something outrageously funny that I can't remember to this day but it was properly witty.

Speaking of bottlers how anyone can vote for Sonia O Sullivan is beyond me. She has oodles of talent and failed to deliver on the biggest stage time and again. I'll never forget my utter horror when I watched her perform her "lap of honour" at the Athens olympics. It summed up everything about that woman and about Irish attitudes to sport. Everyone cheered and the media lauded her for her courage in finishing the race a dismal last. Again. 8 years after finishing last and second last in the Olympics she went and did it again. And still we loved her. She has won a few medals in her time but she massively underachieved and I couldn't contemplate voting for her. She makes me sick.

It is a fairly pathetic list when you look at it and leads me onto a debate I had with bandage a couple of years ago. Ireland prides itself on being a sporting nation which is laughable. Don't get me wrong I love my country and I love my sports. But by God we're awful at them, with the exception of horse racing. When you think of any country of similar size in the developed world they have all achieved far more than us.

I'm voting for Keane by the way with a commendation for O'Driscoll.

[eamo]

iamthelaw said:

eamo said:

Have I missed anyone really obvious?

George Best? Unless we're talking 26 counties he surely must be in there.

Interestingly, RTE held a poll during the last Olympics to find Ireland's greatest Olympian, and Sonia finished 5th. Can't remember who was 3 & 4, probably Delaney & Carruth, possibly Dr Pat O'Callaghan, but 2 was Mary Peters, & 1 was Michelle Smith.

Also, no Gaelic footballers? No golfers?

I didnt include Gaelic footballers because I dont see them in an international sense i.e there is no international comparison to draw them to. That doesnt say that they are any less of legends. I only included Liam Dunne as a pisstake.

No golfers came to mind.

George Best represented Northern Ireland, which means that he represented the UK.

[pagey]

You have got to be kidding me having Sonia O'Sullivan in their. First she doesn't accept the tricolour being handed to her after she won the World Championship, then she makes an arse of the 92 olympics to finish fourth from 1st with 250 to go and then makes a real arse of the 96 olympics. Blows it in Sydney and then finally she changes allegiance to run for another country. Shame on her. Wondering why no Gaelic Footballers are in there and why Eamon Dunphy gets in their ahead of George Best?

[stickywithoutjam]

eamo said:

iamthelaw said:

George Best? Unless we're talking 26 counties he surely must be in there.

Interestingly, RTE held a poll during the last Olympics to find Ireland's greatest Olympian, and Sonia finished 5th. Can't remember who was 3 & 4, probably Delaney & Carruth, possibly Dr Pat O'Callaghan, but 2 was Mary Peters, & 1 was Michelle Smith.

Also, no Gaelic footballers? No golfers?

I didnt include Gaelic footballers because I dont see them in an international sense i.e there is no international comparison to draw them to. That doesnt say that they are any less of legends. I only included Liam Dunne as a pisstake.

No golfers came to mind.

George Best represented Northern Ireland, which means that he represented the UK.

Hold on Eamo, you really didn't think this one through. You said "Ireland"- everyone bar the DUP knows what that means. Is GAA not a sport- no mention of international comparisons being in the equation-you should delete this thread, come up with a new one with no Pish takes- this is a serious forum-no time wasters need apply

[eamo]

admin said:

No cyclists which is interesing - have you overlooked them or do you believe their achievements have been tainted by drugs allegations? What Roche achieved in 1987 was incredible. I wouldn't vote for him because of what has emerged since but I'd certainly subscribe to the view that drug taking was rife throughout the sport and his victories were a huge achievement in any context.

I presume Eamonn Dunphy is not a genuine inclusion? He hardly ranks alongside Giles, McGrath or Brady who have all been omitted.

I don't think I ever said I hated Ken Doherty. I may have called him a bottler which I think is true. Plenty of games he has within his grasp and he fucks up simple chances. Either he bottles it or his concentration is poor. On the plus side he is a geniunely funny guy. I met him at the airport a few years ago and he said something outrageously funny that I can't remember to this day but it was properly witty.

Speaking of bottlers how anyone can vote for Sonia O Sullivan is beyond me. She has oodles of talent and failed to deliver on the biggest stage time and again. I'll never forget my utter horror when I watched her perform her "lap of honour" at the Athens olympics. It summed up everything about that woman and about Irish attitudes to sport. Everyone cheered and the media lauded her for her courage in finishing the race a dismal last. Again. 8 years after finishing last and second last in the Olympics she went and did it again. And still we loved her. She has won a few medals in her time but she massively underachieved and I couldn't contemplate voting for her. She makes me sick.

It is a fairly pathetic list when you look at it and leads me onto a debate I had with bandage a couple of years ago. Ireland prides itself on being a sporting nation which is laughable. Don't get me wrong I love my country and I love my sports. But by God we're awful at them, with the exception of horse racing. When you think of any country of similar size in the developed world they have all achieved far more than us.

I'm voting for Keane by the way with a commendation for O'Driscoll.

A lot of things there:

Sonia O'Sullivan won numerous medals in the World and European Championships before Atlanta, which is something no Irish athlete has done. I dont think that she bottled it. I think there was something genuinely wrong with her. Some whispers actually say that she suffered a mis-carriage. She then came back at whatever age and was pipped by that scrawny Romanian one for gold in Sydney.

I dont think Ken is a bottler either. I do agree that he cant build a break, but he was 15-9 down to Hunter in 2003 and won, and 10-2 down to Williams in the final that year and levelled at 16 all. He has also won the World Championship and being in two finals. This year, in a tournament he had to win to maintain his top 16 status in Malta, he came back from 8-5 down to beat Higgins 9-8. Hardly bottling it!

Dunphy was a pisstake. I actually would probably vote for McGrath ahead of Keane but included the latter because of I felt he was a more crowd pleaser.

[therock67]

eamo said:

A lot of things there:

Sonia O'Sullivan won numerous medals in the World and European Championships before Atlanta, which is something no Irish athlete has done.

She won one medal in each of those before Atlanta. One is not numerous. Eamon Coughlan had won a world championships before (as well as breaking numerous world records)

eamo said:

I dont think that she bottled it. I think there was something genuinely wrong with her. Some whispers actually say that she suffered a mis-carriage. She then came back at whatever age and was pipped by that scrawny Romanian one for gold in Sydney.

She blamed "the big d" - drugs? There may or may not have been something wrong with her in Atlanta. The damning evidence for me was when she replicated the feat in Athens.

eamo said:

I dont think Ken is a bottler either. I do agree that he cant build a break, but he was 15-9 down to Hunter in 2003 and won, and 10-2 down to Williams in the final that year and levelled at 16 all. He has also won the World Championship and being in two finals. This year, in a tournament he had to win to maintain his top 16 status in Malta, he came back from 8-5 down to beat Higgins 9-8. Hardly bottling it!

Examples of comebacks all of them which suggest he can't handle the pressure when he's in front. His black off the spot for his 147 was the best example of buckling under pressure.

[bandage]

Agree about O'Sullivan failing to deliver on her talent. Also on the previous debate we had about the standard of sport in the country - it's actually appalling if you compare to other similar small European countries.

I'd go for either Dunne, Giles, Keane or AP McCoy myself.

Surprised Cian O'Connor isn't up there.

[iamthelaw]

I'd go for O'Driscoll. Would have been on any World XV for the last five years at least I think. Even one not picked by Irish people. Maybe the same might have been true of Keane, but don't know enough about soccer to judge.

Also imo the greatest ever Irish rugby player. Possible exception of Kyle but as for Gibson, O'Driscoll has had the same brilliant moments but also dominates a game in a way CMH never did.

Still a few years left too, fingers crossed.

[eamo]

admin said:

eamo said:

A lot of things there:

Sonia O'Sullivan won numerous medals in the World and European Championships before Atlanta, which is something no Irish athlete has done.

She won one medal in each of those before Atlanta. One is not numerous. Eamon Coughlan had won a world championships before (as well as breaking numerous world records). Numerous? Sonia won two World Championship medals in 1993 and 1995 as well as a European Championship in 1994. She also won an Olympic silever in Sydney and while an old woman she finished last in Athens. Give her a break. I would have applauded her that day for her contribution in the previous 10 plus years.

eamo said:

I dont think Ken is a bottler either. I do agree that he cant build a break, but he was 15-9 down to Hunter in 2003 and won, and 10-2 down to Williams in the final that year and levelled at 16 all. He has also won the World Championship and being in two finals. This year, in a tournament he had to win to maintain his top 16 status in Malta, he came back from 8-5 down to beat Higgins 9-8. Hardly bottling it!

Examples of comebacks all of them which suggest he can't handle the pressure when he's in front. His black off the spot for his 147 was the best example of buckling under pressure.

Sonia won two World Championship medals in 1993 and 1995 as well as a European Championship in 1994. She also won an Olympic silver in Sydney and while as an old woman she finished last in Athens. Give her a break. I would have applauded her that day for her contribution in the previous 10 plus years.

Doherty missing the black was 'bottling it' but it only happened once. He won the World Championship - the biggest stage of all - from being in front. He beat Stephen Hendry in the final, who had won five of the previous six world titles. Not a bottler, a legend.

[therock67]

iamthelaw said:

I'd go for O'Driscoll. Would have been on any World XV for the last five years at least I think. Even one not picked by Irish people. Maybe the same might have been true of Keane, but don't know enough about soccer to judge.

Also imo the greatest ever Irish rugby player. Possible exception of Kyle but as for Gibson, O'Driscoll has had the same brilliant moments but also dominates a game in a way CMH never did.

Still a few years left too, fingers crossed.

2 things:

• What does CMH stand for?
  
• Your signature states "peu m'importe mes chances peu m'importent le temps" - My French is very rusty so I'm not really understanding it. However my French grammar has never left me and it strikes me that you haven't agreed you verb with your subject. The subjects of the two clauses are "mes chances" and "le temps" respectively. Therefore the verbs should be "importent" and "importe" respectively - leaving us with:
  
  peu m'importent mes chances peu m'importe le temps
  
  Just a thought - let me know if I'm wrong.
  

[stickywithoutjam]

Am I in an Open University discussion site?!?

[therock67]

eamo said:

admin said:

She won one medal in each of those before Atlanta. One is not numerous. Eamon Coughlan had won a world championships before (as well as breaking numerous world records). Numerous? Sonia won two World Championship medals in 1993 and 1995 as well as a European Championship in 1994. She also won an Olympic silever in Sydney and while an old woman she finished last in Athens. Give her a break. I would have applauded her that day for her contribution in the previous 10 plus years.




Examples of comebacks all of them which suggest he can't handle the pressure when he's in front. His black off the spot for his 147 was the best example of buckling under pressure.

Sonia won two World Championship medals in 1993 and 1995 as well as a European Championship in 1994. She also won an Olympic silver in Sydney and while as an old woman she finished last in Athens. Give her a break. I would have applauded her that day for her contribution in the previous 10 plus years.

Sorry I misread the first point and thought it referred to gold medals. It empahsises my argument about glorifying failure though when we count silver and goal medals as worthy achievements of our greatest ever sports star.

If anyone has a video of that Athens performance I'd love to see it and I'll tell you why. I timed O'Sullivan's penultimate lap at the time and then I timed her "lap of honour." She completed them both in the same time. She had no guts during the race and ran at a jog. That was a fucking disgraceful performance and brought shame on the country! Then she threatened to switch allegiances because her grants were cut. Why the fuck should the Irish tax payer pay for her to do that?

[iamthelaw]

admin said:

• Your signature states "peu m'importe mes chances peu m'importent le temps" - My French is very rusty so I'm not really understanding it. However my French grammar has never left me and it strikes me that you haven't agreed you verb with your subject. The subjects of the two clauses are "mes chances" and "le temps" respectively. Therefore the verbs should be "importent" and "importe" respectively - leaving us with:
  
  peu m'importent mes chances peu m'importe le temps
  
  Just a thought - let me know if I'm wrong.
  

You're absolutely correct. Have changed my signature as otherwise every time I look at it, it will annoy me for having made such a mistake.

admin said:

iamthelaw said:

I'd go for O'Driscoll. Would have been on any World XV for the last five years at least I think. Even one not picked by Irish people. Maybe the same might have been true of Keane, but don't know enough about soccer to judge.

Also imo the greatest ever Irish rugby player. Possible exception of Kyle but as for Gibson, O'Driscoll has had the same brilliant moments but also dominates a game in a way CMH never did.

Still a few years left too, fingers crossed.

• What does CMH stand for?
  

CMH is Cameron Michael Henderson, the first names of the aforementioned Mr Gibson. Trying to head off any easy disagreement with my choice of O'Driscoll as greatest ever Irish rugby player by displaying that I am aware of those who came previously, guess I got carried away!

[eamo]

Can you imagine being a top class athlete in Ireland over the last 10 years? How frustrating could it have been? Rows over everything. The athletics organisation run by a bunch of amateurs. Yet she still delivered. Yes I am commending her for winning silver medals, which is more than any other Irish athlete ever won.

I heard an interview with her recently where she was talking about her applying for Oz citizenship. She said that it was only due to the fact that she wanted to run in the Commonwealth
Games. It was, in her opinion, the most competitive event around at the time. She said if Ireland was in it she would have won for them. I think that she should be let do what she wants after what she has done for this country. She carried all our athletic hopes for nearly fifteen years and won more medals (FACT) than
any other Irish athlete.

I also cant imagine you sitting down with a stopwatch and timing O'Sullivan from one point to another as she completed her lap of honour. Well then again maybe I can!

[therock67]

eamo said:

I heard an interview with her recently where she was talking about her applying for Oz citizenship. She said that it was only due to the fact that she wanted to run in the Commonwealth
Games. It was, in her opinion, the most competitive event around at the time. She said if Ireland was in it she would have won for them.

Aren't we privileged? If we simply renege on 800 years of resistance and revolution and apply to be part of Britain's glorious commonwealth then Sonia will run for us again. Fuck off bitch.

eamo said:

I also cant imagine you sitting down with a stopwatch and timing O'Sullivan from one point to another as she completed her lap of honour. Well then again maybe I can!

The point was it wasn't a lap of honour it was her last lap of the actual race and the fools cheered her on even though she was disgracing herself. Because she crossed the line with another athlete who was actually finishing the race it was pretty easy to work out her split time for that lap and compare it with the others she had run before.

[briantinnion]

Without a shadow of a doubt Liam Dunne. The man is an inspiration. Reading his book had me in tears, the dignity in the way he finished his career, the determination to get back to the highest level at 35. Running on the beach at 6am, up and down Vinegar Hill. You need only at the players that are happy to retire at 29/30 to see his greatness. Or even look at the current Wexford panel, Andrew Kavanagh Barry Lambert et al remember: it was a privelege I was told to wear the purple and gold.

He's not finished yet either, mark my words, Dunne will lead Wexford to another All-Ireland in the next 6/7 years. These are dark days on Slaneyside but with someone like Dunne involved there's always hope.