Football around 88-92

[therock67]

I used to hate as a kid when people always talked about footballers in the olden days being better than nowadays and when you saw footage of a game from the 50s or 60s you saw that most of them were sh1te. Fantasy Football then developed a segment called "Old Football was Sh1t" and it was bang on.

However, when thinking about the best player in the world at present it is commonly accepted that Ronaldinho is miles ahead. Suggestions for the second best player I heard in the pub were Rooney and Henry. Now Henry is an excellent player and Rooney has the potential to be great but it got me thinking about the quality of player that was around at Italia 90 times and how the standard has dropped in terms of individual geniuses. Back then we had:

• Maradona
  
• Gullit
  
• Van Basten
  
• Baggio
  
• Hagi
  
• Stoichkov
  
• Matthaus
  

Add to this guys like Careca, Klinsmann Voeller, Valderama, Prosinecki, Lineker. There were some cracking individual players around back then.

[cully]

would have to agree on this one. ever watch those clips of pele et al and the pace of the game was ridiculous, lads actually walking around mid field with the ball. that's what makes it hard to compare players from different eras, but what is easy to say is that maradona would defo have enough skills to ghost by those midfielders who walked to close down the ball as they did in the 50s and 60s. we'll never know if pele could have lived with the pace of the game that maradona and ronaldinho now play in.

also looking at a similar list of the great players of today's era when compared to those listed above you would have to include

- ronaldinho (class in any era)
- zidane ( class in any era)
- beckham (a fine crosser of the ball, but confused things by being played in the centre of midfield, stick to what you're good at )
- totti (never done it on the world stage, has he even done it on the serie a stage ?)
- del piero (not the influence on the game which his skills would suggest)
- ronaldo (superb finisher at his peak, good in any era)
- maldini (world class defender, in any era)
- mcgeady (see comment for zidance and ronaldinho above)
- flood (same as mcgeady)
- owen (one good world cup as a nipper but worthy of mention here)
- nedved (good in any era)
- rooney (about the set the world alight)

am sure i 've missed some obvious ones but i'm not so sure that the 88-92 vintage are streets ahead of the 2002-2006 vintage?

[therock67]

cully said:

would have to agree on this one. ever watch those clips of pele et al and the pace of the game was ridiculous, lads actually walking around mid field with the ball. that's what makes it hard to compare players from different eras, but what is easy to say is that maradona would defo have enough skills to ghost by those midfielders who walked to close down the ball as they did in the 50s and 60s. we'll never know if pele could have lived with the pace of the game that maradona and ronaldinho now play in.

also looking at a similar list of the great players of today's era when compared to those listed above you would have to include

- ronaldinho (class in any era)
- zidane ( class in any era)
- beckham (a fine crosser of the ball, but confused things by being played in the centre of midfield, stick to what you're good at )
- totti (never done it on the world stage, has he even done it on the serie a stage ?)
- del piero (not the influence on the game which his skills would suggest)
- ronaldo (superb finisher at his peak, good in any era)
- maldini (world class defender, in any era)
- mcgeady (see comment for zidance and ronaldinho above)
- flood (same as mcgeady)
- owen (one good world cup as a nipper but worthy of mention here)
- nedved (good in any era)
- rooney (about the set the world alight)

am sure i 've missed some obvious ones but i'm not so sure that the 88-92 vintage are streets ahead of the 2002-2006 vintage?

Of the above list I can't see us looking back and drooling over too many of them once they finish their careers. There are excellent players there like Nedved and Owen etc but are they any better than the likes of Careca and Rai and Savicevic? The lads I listed above were really class players. Plus Romania and Bulgaria were producing guys like that - Nedved is a lovely player but does he compare to Hagi? Nedved may be as effective but there is a shortage of genuine playmakers - we have to make do with the likes of Deco instead.

[cully]

for careca read ronaldo in his pomp in world cup in sth korea, for rai read rui costa in his.

[therock67]

cully said:

for careca read ronaldo in his pomp in world cup in sth korea, for rai read rui costa in his.

yeah but that reinforces my point I think. The likes of Rai and Careca were very good players but they weren't as good as Gullit, Van Basten, Hagi, Stoichkov et al.

[eamo]

Interesting thread this one. I think therock67 may be doing a Brian Glanville on it (ie saying that all current players are muck compared to a little inside right that played for Blackpool in the 50s). Careca was decent but not world class. He had Maradona at Napoli. Rai played the majority of his career in Brazil moving to the might of PSG at the end. Savicevic and Prosinecki were extremely talented but never fulfilled their potential (particularly Prosinecki). Nedved is the most overrated player in the world today. His recent outings against Arsenal showed that up. Apologies I have lost track of my point.... just a lot of ramblings

[therock67]

eamo said:

Interesting thread this one. I think therock67 may be doing a Brian Glanville on it (ie saying that all current players are muck compared to a little inside right that played for Blackpool in the 50s). Careca was decent but not world class. He had Maradona at Napoli. Rai played the majority of his career in Brazil moving to the might of PSG at the end. Savicevic and Prosinecki were extremely talented but never fulfilled their potential (particularly Prosinecki). Nedved is the most overrated player in the world today. His recent outings against Arsenal showed that up. Apologies I have lost track of my point.... just a lot of ramblings

The last thing I want to come across as is one of those ranters about olden days football and the classic games we had then. I don't think I made my point very well because everyone keeps talking about Careca, Rai and Prosinecki. My point is that Prosinecki and Savicevic are easily as good as Nedved or Lampard. Careca is as good as most strikers these days. If you were to pick a current world XI against a world XI from 88-92 then there were so many better or more skillful individuals from back then. If you said that Ronaldinho was comparable to Maradona (though he has a long way to go yet) then who is the equal of Van Basten, Gullit, Stoichkov. Is it the likes of Nedved, Gerrard, Lampard, Kaka? They're not in the same class in my opinion.

[eamo]

I agree. There were a lot better football teams back then as well. I have often gone on about Liverpool in 87/88. Chelsea now are a pale comparison. On a European stage Milan were a superb team with the three Dutchmen. Snooker is following a similar route with rubbish like Graeme Dott winning the World Championship. Where are the Davis', the Whites, the Hendrys or the O'Sullivans?

[briantinnion]

Speaking of old footballers - did anyone see the Arsenal - Ajax game on Saturday? Some of the touches Van Basten was pulling out were just beautiful, I couldn't believe it. Even allowing for the uncompetitive nature of the game it was a joy to behold.

And another thing, I think Ronaldinho really got found out at the World Cup. He's nowhere near the likes of Maradonna and Zidane. He's 26 now and at this stage if he really is to be considered one of the greats I would have expected him to shine at the tournament, show pony.

[corleone]

The pace of the game now is so fast that fewer players shine as having that genius anymore I think. Players have so little time on the ball now, I think that's why it's so difficult to campare different eras. If anyone remebers Socrates for Brazil in the 80s he was an absolute genius, but wouldn't dream of running, not to mind trying to sprint off the ball. He smoked 40 a day when in his prime. You just couldn't get away with that in the modern game when almost every player is a top class athlete, regardless of their footballing skills.

[bandage]

corleone said:

The pace of the game now is so fast that fewer players shine as having that genius anymore I think. Players have so little time on the ball now, I think that's why it's so difficult to campare different eras. If anyone remebers Socrates for Brazil in the 80s he was an absolute genius, but wouldn't dream of running, not to mind trying to sprint off the ball. He smoked 40 a day when in his prime. You just couldn't get away with that in the modern game when almost every player is a top class athlete, regardless of their footballing skills.

This is probably a first but you might just have a point there corleone. Now if only you could sort out some decent pints aswell.

I agree that even technically strong teams are now pressing their opponents all over the park and not allowing them time on the ball at all. Before teams with higher quality often allowed teams time and space and reckoned that their extra class would tell in the end.

Even in the World Cup teams like Italy and Argentina were particularly effective at harrying their opponents and stopping attacks at source.

Still think the general point is valid though. It is a sad indictment on standards today when a shaper like Thierry Henry is considered the best player in the world by many.

P.S. Bar 51 better be showing Celtic games as priority this season on Champions League nights. That is all.

[corleone]

Ok bandage, in reply to your attepted blackmail - I'm not happy with still having only one star beside my name like I'm your average infidel. Sort it out. Like the minus karma though, I'd be worried if I was popular on this website. Also you have to get my boss to let me off for the (probably ficticious) Free Kick.com Christmas Party, you have the influence my friend...Praise be Allah, and Matty Forde