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Post by bandage on Apr 20, 2006 9:53:28 GMT
according to the Huddleboard and Real Radio in Scotland. I don't care if he wants to go. I know he's been a great servant too. But I want him to stay. He signed a contract in January - hopefully there's no ridiculous clause in it that allows him to leave on the cheap. He should think carefully. Not many people have gone on to better things after leaving Celtic in the last 10-15 years.
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Post by whyohwhy on Apr 20, 2006 9:56:43 GMT
Still though, if he leaves, Celtic will have a fairly old central midfield next season and hopefully it will be a long season (Cl). Lennon & Keane wont be able for 30+ matches next season).
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Post by lyonsee on Apr 20, 2006 10:02:50 GMT
Not many people have gone on to better things after leaving Celtic in the last 10-15 years. Generally because those players are sub-standard in the first place or have gone to Celtic to finish their careers. |
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Post by therock67 on Apr 20, 2006 10:17:45 GMT
Not many people have gone on to better things after leaving Celtic in the last 10-15 years. Generally because those players are sub-standard in the first place or have gone to Celtic to finish their careers. No I don't really agree. Guys like Di Canio and Viduka and Van Hooijdonk were all quality international players who got distracted by the media hype of the premiership and left, reckoning themselves too good for the spl. They ended up playing for non-entity clubs like Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesboro and Nottingham Forest. They had the quality but made the wrong decision in leaving. Same as Miller. The guys who didn't leave of their own accord were the lads lacking in quality - Burchill et al. |
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Post by bandage on Apr 20, 2006 10:18:20 GMT
Off the top of my head - players who didn't finish their careers at Celtic or would generally not be considered sub-standard:
Viduka-: With Middlesboro now ffs.
Berkovic-: Don't know where this little rat is.
Di Canio-: Went to Sheffield Wednesday ffs - last seen making Nazi salutes for a poor Lazio side in the Italian league.
Sutton-: Birmingham City!
Collins-: Monaco - it's debatable whether he went on to better things. Maybe you could say he did as Rangers were in the middle of their 9-in-a-row when he was at Celtic. Nice town but playing on a car park in front of 10k people in comparison to Celtic Park?
Jackie McNamara-: Wolves! Last seen at Celtic Park for the Heart game pining for a return.
Larsson-: Barcelona. He'll win 2 leagues in 2 seasons as opposed to Celtic's 1. Might also get a Champions League medal. He is the exception. Then again he is an exceptional player.
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Post by therock67 on Apr 20, 2006 10:21:40 GMT
according to the Huddleboard and Real Radio in Scotland. I don't care if he wants to go. I know he's been a great servant too. But I want him to stay. He signed a contract in January - hopefully there's no ridiculous clause in it that allows him to leave on the cheap. He should think carefully. Not many people have gone on to better things after leaving Celtic in the last 10-15 years. The big talk is of Bayern Munich and to be honest that's a different kettle of fish to leaving to join Fulham or Middlesboro or someone. Mathaus mentioned him as a Muenchen target a couple of weeks back and when you consider that they're losing Ballack and currently play Hargreaves, then it's clear he'd command a regular spot. I'd love him to stay but I wouldn't begrudge him a move to a big European side (i.e. one that can win the Champions League) if we got decent cash. At least he signed a new contract so we can command a proper fee - 6m or so minimum I'd be looking for. To be honest though I'm not sure I buy the story. He was looking very downbeat at the weekend but I don't think one argument with Strachan would force him to leave. |
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Post by bandage on Apr 20, 2006 10:30:57 GMT
Yeah I saw the Mathaeus quotes a couple of weeks back too. It might just be the Scottish media creating a story like they do. They see Petrov not looking best pleased on Sunday, then Ballack agreeing to join Chelsea, think back to the Munich/Mathaeus link and throw the story together. Add to that the Old Firm game on Sunday and it's a nice way to try unsettle the Celtic camp for a game Rangers must win. Again, I wouldn't begrudge him a move to a team like Bayern - it would annoy the fook out of me if he did a Di Canio, Viduka etc and joined some no marks like Fulham. While I say I don't begrudge him the move and would wish him all the best I definitely want him to stay. They've won the League in a season of rebuilding, now there's a bit of stability there even though everyone recognises more players still need to be added and the last thing I'd want to see is Petrov leaving which creates a hole in the midfield when I think another midfield player is already required. I know I posted this but it might be best to wait until official sources confirm or deny it.  |
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Post by lyonsee on Apr 20, 2006 10:47:26 GMT
Generally because those players are sub-standard in the first place or have gone to Celtic to finish their careers. No I don't really agree. Guys like Di Canio and Viduka and Van Hooijdonk were all quality international players who got distracted by the media hype of the premiership and left, reckoning themselves too good for the spl. They ended up playing for non-entity clubs like Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesboro and Nottingham Forest. They had the quality but made the wrong decision in leaving. Same as Miller. The guys who didn't leave of their own accord were the lads lacking in quality - Burchill et al. Di Canio had a cracking Premiership career imo particularly at West Ham. One could debate whether he went on to better things given the fact that he wasn't with a big Premiership club. I rate EPL as better than SPL so would say he did go on to better things. Viduka is currently in fantastic form at Middlesborough who are flying in the UEFA Cup at the moment. Would success in the UEFA Cup constitute going on to better things? Wasn't too familiar with Van Hooijdonk's career so looked him up on uefa.com. Looks reasonably successful to me. The following is from the site, '2001: After falling out with Forest, he played for SBV Vitesse and SL Benfica before signing for Feyenoord, his boyhood club. Struck 52 goals in 61 league games over two seasons and starred in the 2002 UEFA Cup final success, scoring ten times including two in the final. 2003/04: Signed for Fenerbahçe SK and scored 24 goals in 34 games to help the Istanbul club to the Turkish title.' |
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eamo
Ger Loughnane
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Post by eamo on Apr 20, 2006 10:52:12 GMT
A lot of nonsense been spouted there. Di Canio was a major success at West Ham. I find it really irritating when Bandage constantly defends Celtic in the face of overwhemling evidence to the contrary. He once unbelievably stated that Henrik Larsson was the best player to play in Britain over the last fifteen years, discounting Shearer, Keane, Henry et al. Face it lads, the SPL is not up to the quality of the EPL. This is reflected in the fact that Rangers were the first Scottish team to get to the second round of the CL and also due to the fact that no other team apart from the Old Firm has won the SPL since 1985. The EPL may not be the best quality but it is far and away superior.
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Post by lyonsee on Apr 20, 2006 10:58:43 GMT
Off the top of my head - players who didn't finish their careers at Celtic or would generally not be considered sub-standard: Viduka-: With Middlesboro now ffs. Berkovic-: Don't know where this little rat is. Di Canio-: Went to Sheffield Wednesday ffs - last seen making Nazi salutes for a poor Lazio side in the Italian league. Sutton-: Birmingham City! Collins-: Monaco - it's debatable whether he went on to better things. Maybe you could say he did as Rangers were in the middle of their 9-in-a-row when he was at Celtic. Nice town but playing on a car park in front of 10k people in comparison to Celtic Park? Jackie McNamara-: Wolves! Last seen at Celtic Park for the Heart game pining for a return. Larsson-: Barcelona. He'll win 2 leagues in 2 seasons as opposed to Celtic's 1. Might also get a Champions League medal. He is the exception. Then again he is an exceptional player. Sutton and McNamara were pretty much finished when they left Celtic. McNamara is sub-standard anyway imo. Viduka and Di Canio I've discussed above. Collins won a French league title at Monaco did he not? Larsson as you said is an exception. |
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Post by bandage on Apr 20, 2006 13:00:53 GMT
Guys I don't dispute the fact that Viduka and Di Canio have had their moments since leaving Celtic. I remember Viduka scoring 4 goals for Leeds in a 4-3 against Liverpool for example. But they have not won trophies - Celtic have won a good few league titles and got to a European final in the interim. If you think being the darling of West Ham for 18 months as they get relegated in any way equates to playing for Celtic in front of 60,000 supporters with that pedigree and tradition then I don't really respect your opinion on football. Re Rangers being the first SPL team to advance in Europe - this reminds me of Sky with their insistence that football only began once the Premiership was formed. There was a competition for domestic league winners long before the current incarnation known as the 'Champions League'. Celtic have actually won this competition. Lyonsee I'll give you big Pierre - I was concentrating on what I considered to be a ridiculous move to Notts Forest and hadn't factored in his subsequent UEFA Cup victory. Re Collins he may have won a league with Monaco - I'm not sure but I still think it's a step down from Celtic.
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Post by therock67 on Apr 20, 2006 13:04:21 GMT
A lot of nonsense been spouted there. Di Canio was a major success at West Ham. I find it really irritating when Bandage constantly defends Celtic in the face of overwhemling evidence to the contrary. He once unbelievably stated that Henrik Larsson was the best player to play in Britain over the last fifteen years, discounting Shearer, Keane, Henry et al. Face it lads, the SPL is not up to the quality of the EPL. This is reflected in the fact that Rangers were the first Scottish team to get to the second round of the CL and also due to the fact that no other team apart from the Old Firm has won the SPL since 1985. The EPL may not be the best quality but it is far and away superior. I don't think this should deteriorate into an age-old EPL vs SPL debate. However I will point out the same thing to you Eamo as I have said many times before - stop quoting history that begins and ends at arbitrary points in time. Saying that no Scottish team has reached the second round of the CL before this year is a pathetic argument. Celtic have won the European Cup and been finalists. Rangers were in the second group stages in the relatively recent past. It's the same as all these bullshit records about top scorer in the Premiership ever. Soccer didn't begin and end with the involvement of Sky. If you think that Di Canio's "succeses" at West Ham eclipse Celtic's achievements over his career then I'm afraid I can't even begin to understand your rationale. Where are his medals? How many times has he competed in Europe? He has had a joke of a career since he left Celtic. Van Hooijdonk, it could be argued, went on to better things. The point I was making originally was that he left Celtic originally to join Forest where he was ostracised. That was hardly successful. |
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Post by therock67 on Apr 20, 2006 13:05:27 GMT
Guys I don't dispute the fact that Viduka and Di Canio have had their moments since leaving Celtic. I remember Viduka scoring 4 goals for Leeds in a 4-3 against Liverpool for example. But they have not won trophies - Celtic have won a good few league titles and got to a European final in the interim. If you think being the darling of West Ham for 18 months as they get relegated in any way equates to playing for Celtic in front of 60,000 supporters with that pedigree and tradition then I don't really respect your opinion on football. Re Rangers being the first SPL team to advance in Europe - this reminds me of Sky with their insistence that football only began once the Premiership was formed. There was a competition for domestic league winners long before the current incarnation known as the 'Champions League'. Celtic have actually won this competition. Lyonsee I'll give you big Pierre - I was concentrating on what I considered to be a ridiculous move to Notts Forest and hadn't factored in his subsequent UEFA Cup victory. Re Collins he may have won a league with Monaco - I'm not sure but I still think it's a step down from Celtic. Beat me to it but we made nearly the exact same points! |
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Post by lyonsee on Apr 20, 2006 14:12:57 GMT
Guys I don't dispute the fact that Viduka and Di Canio have had their moments since leaving Celtic. I remember Viduka scoring 4 goals for Leeds in a 4-3 against Liverpool for example. But they have not won trophies - Celtic have won a good few league titles and got to a European final in the interim. If you think being the darling of West Ham for 18 months as they get relegated in any way equates to playing for Celtic in front of 60,000 supporters with that pedigree and tradition then I don't really respect your opinion on football. Re Rangers being the first SPL team to advance in Europe - this reminds me of Sky with their insistence that football only began once the Premiership was formed. There was a competition for domestic league winners long before the current incarnation known as the 'Champions League'. Celtic have actually won this competition. Lyonsee I'll give you big Pierre - I was concentrating on what I considered to be a ridiculous move to Notts Forest and hadn't factored in his subsequent UEFA Cup victory. Re Collins he may have won a league with Monaco - I'm not sure but I still think it's a step down from Celtic. Beat me to it but we made nearly the exact same points! Right. From now on I'm referring to both of ye as Brian Abyrne. Thank you. |
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Post by bandage on Apr 20, 2006 14:24:33 GMT
Right. From now on I'm referring to both of ye as Brian Abyrne. Thank you. I hope you don't give away my real identity on the board lyonsee.  |
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Post by bandage on Apr 20, 2006 14:40:56 GMT
Just up on the fishal Celtic site:
Newsroom Staff
Further to press speculation today, a Celtic spokesperson commented: "We have received no official transfer request from Stilian Petrov, who has recently signed a new long-term contract with the Club, but clearly, any such request would be rejected."
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Post by stickywithoutjam on Apr 20, 2006 14:56:56 GMT
Calling all Soccer fans, come and join us in the ROCCER ball arena!!
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eamo
Ger Loughnane
Posts: 331
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Post by eamo on Apr 21, 2006 8:29:30 GMT
This argument continued last night where things got extremely heated between Bandage and I. His argument (I think - a lot of things were said) surrounded Henrik Larsson versus the top players in the Premiership. My point (and you are right therock67 - its getting boring now) was that you cannot compare a player in the SPL to the EPL because there is a vastly differing quality base. That surely cannot be argued. It may be unfair but it is the case.
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Post by therock67 on Apr 21, 2006 8:40:40 GMT
This argument continued last night where things got extremely heated between Bandage and I. His argument (I think - a lot of things were said) surrounded Henrik Larsson versus the top players in the Premiership. My point (and you are right therock67 - its getting boring now) was that you cannot compare a player in the SPL to the EPL because there is a vastly differing quality base. That surely cannot be argued. It may be unfair but it is the case. That's a load of crap - it's like saying you can't compare Ronaldinho with a player in the SPL because they are different standards. Larsson was a truly world class player (still is, but his qualities have been diminished by age). He would have been the equal of Henry or Van Nistelrooy in the premiership and other than Shearer at his peak no other striker in England would come close to him. When you listen to the constant deification of the likes of Fowler then you realise just how brilliant Larsson was, irrespective of what league he played in. |
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Post by stickywithoutjam on Apr 21, 2006 8:41:40 GMT
???Update the non-participants to this debate. That means you must a have proposition that we can either agree with or not, and it cannot be something as bland as saying "the EPL have a larger quality base than the SPL". What are you trying to prove? Is it your roundabout way of saying I support a far superior EPL team than those who chose the SPL? Is that what you really mean?? What is your point  |
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eamo
Ger Loughnane
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Post by eamo on Apr 21, 2006 10:23:38 GMT
He would have been the equal of Henry or Van Nistelrooy in the premiership and other than Shearer at his peak no other striker in England would come close to him. When you listen to the constant deification of the likes of Fowler then you realise just how brilliant Larsson was, irrespective of what league he played in.[/quote]
I dont agree with any of that. Larsson was an excellent player granted, but never as good as Henry or Shearer or Fowler at his peak.
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Post by whyohwhy on Apr 21, 2006 10:31:01 GMT
He would have been the equal of Henry or Van Nistelrooy in the premiership and other than Shearer at his peak no other striker in England would come close to him. When you listen to the constant deification of the likes of Fowler then you realise just how brilliant Larsson was, irrespective of what league he played in. I dont agree with any of that. Larsson was an excellent player granted, but never as good as Henry or Shearer or Fowler at his peak. [/quote] Larsson did more at international level than those three............... |
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Post by therock67 on Apr 21, 2006 10:45:06 GMT
He would have been the equal of Henry or Van Nistelrooy in the premiership and other than Shearer at his peak no other striker in England would come close to him. When you listen to the constant deification of the likes of Fowler then you realise just how brilliant Larsson was, irrespective of what league he played in. I dont agree with any of that. Larsson was an excellent player granted, but never as good as Henry or Shearer or Fowler at his peak. [/quote] Including Fowler with Henry, Shearer and Larsson is indicative of the EPL-centric and Liverpool-centric viewpoint you hold. Larsson was voted greatest Swedish player of the last 50 years (quite an accolade given their rich soccer history) and is the leading scorer in Europe for anyBritish club. This in effect means that for a Celtic team, which you have dismissed in a European context, he has scored more goals than any other player ever in the English or Scottish leagues. So either Celtic are a better team than you claim they are, or Larsson was ridiculously good or both. That's better than Henry and better than Shearer. Fowler doesn't deserve even an attempt a comparison. Different planets. |
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Post by lyonsee on Apr 21, 2006 10:45:42 GMT
He would have been the equal of Henry or Van Nistelrooy in the premiership and other than Shearer at his peak no other striker in England would come close to him. When you listen to the constant deification of the likes of Fowler then you realise just how brilliant Larsson was, irrespective of what league he played in. I dont agree with any of that. Larsson was an excellent player granted, but never as good as Henry or Shearer or Fowler at his peak. Larsson did more at international level than those three...............[/quote] Henry has a World Cup and a European Championship winners medal. Van Nistelrooy has a better strike ratio at international level than Larsson (25 in 49 versus 34 in 88 source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/)Fowler I'll give you (at international level). For me Larsson hasn't proven himself for a sustained period of time in a decent league. This debate is quite stale at this stage. Larsson scored a hatful of goals wherever he went but I reckon he was always in a comfort zone. I'd point towards the likes of Marco Negri and Kris Boyd (who I suspect ye'll say are rubbish) who scored/score goals for fun in SPL. |
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Post by whyohwhy on Apr 21, 2006 10:48:04 GMT
What did Henry do to deserve those medals? Just happened to be on a great team.
i'll give you RVN
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