Best Current World X1

[steamboatsam]

Following on from a debate in the 51 last night with some forum members, pick your current best world X1, ie no has beens like Zidane etc. Also choose your formation of choice. Mine is as follows

Buffon

Puyol
Nesta
Ayala
Heinze

Makelele
Ballack
Pirlo

Rooney
Eto'o
Ronaldinho

Feel free to critique / ridicule

[whyohwhy]

steamboatsam said:

Feel free to critique / ridicule

I dont think the members of this forum ever needed an invite

[bandage]

A 4-2-3-1 formation as favoured by Steve Staunton against Sweden (my new favourite formation):

Casillas

Puyol
Ayala
Nesta
Sorin

Xavi
Kaka

Messi
Ballack
Ronaldinho

Torres

I’ve picked a few slightly unproven young players who will take the World by storm over the coming years. Struggled with my two defensive midfielders – in the end decided we’d have so much of the ball we wouldn’t really need anyone other than Xavi. This side is unbeatable. Thank you. If I see Steven Gerrard in anyone's team then I'll laugh quite loudly.

[whyohwhy]

bandage said:

A 4-2-3-1 formation as favoured by Steve Staunton against Sweden (my new favourite formation):

Casillas

Puyol
Ayala
Nesta
Sorin

Xavi
Kaka

Messi
Ballack
Ronaldinho

Torres

I’ve picked a few slightly unproven young players who will take the World by storm over the coming years. Struggled with my two defensive midfielders – in the end decided we’d have so much of the ball we wouldn’t really need anyone other than Xavi. This side is unbeatable. Thank you. If I see Steven Gerrard in anyone's team then I'll laugh quite loudly.

Kaka as a holding midfielder, your having a giraffe

[bandage]

Read my post. Said he's not in as a holding midfield player just a playmaker.

[whyohwhy]

bandage said:

Read my post. Said he's not in as a holding midfield player just a playmaker.

So why not play 4-1-5-1 then? instead of 4-2-3-1?

[therock67]

steamboatsam said:

Following on from a debate in the 51 last night with some forum members, pick your current best world X1, ie no has beens like Zidane etc. Also choose your formation of choice. Mine is as follows

Buffon

Puyol
Nesta
Ayala
Heinze

Makelele
Ballack
Pirlo

Rooney
Eto'o
Ronaldinho

Feel free to critique / ridicule

Finding it hard to propose many changes but Bandage has included some of the players I'd propose.

Buffon

Puyol
Nesta
Ayala
Heinze

Makelele
Xavi
Ballack

Kaka
Ronaldinho

Eto'o

I'm not 100% convinced of Puyol and Heinze. With the narrow midfield that people are opting for it's important to have full backs who are prepared to attack. As evidenced the other day Puyol is obviously very comfortable when advancing with the ball but it's not a natural step for him.

I'd have Ronaldinho and Kaka roaming about with Ballack bursting a gut to get into the box all the time.

Ended up choosing a Christmas tree formation on paper but it's probably more akin to Barcelona's current effort, just that Kaka will be slightly more withdrawn than Giuly.

[lyonsee]

Given


Cannavaro
Nesta
Ashley Cole


Makelele
Xabi Alonso
Gerrard

Ronaldinho
Henry
Robben

There's no right back jumping out at me - given the lack of width in that midfield you need an adventurous right back (while I think Puyol is a great player he is a centre-half). Finnan, Salgado, Belletti are not quite good enough and Thuram and Cafu are has beens. Hmmm I'll have to think more about it.

[bandage]

whyohwhy said:

bandage said:

Read my post. Said he's not in as a holding midfield player just a playmaker.

So why not play 4-1-5-1 then? instead of 4-2-3-1?

He's in the midfield playing behind Ballack, who I've instructed to get in the box, and has more freedom than Xavi though he's beside him in the formation to keep the team shape when we don't have possession.

[lyonsee]

bandage said:

A 4-2-3-1 formation as favoured by Steve Staunton against Sweden (my new favourite formation):

Casillas

Puyol
Ayala
Nesta
Sorin

Xavi
Kaka

Messi
Ballack
Ronaldinho

Torres

I’ve picked a few slightly unproven young players who will take the World by storm over the coming years. Struggled with my two defensive midfielders – in the end decided we’d have so much of the ball we wouldn’t really need anyone other than Xavi. This side is unbeatable. Thank you. If I see Steven Gerrard in anyone's team then I'll laugh quite loudly.

Had my team posted before I read that bit about Gerrard. Laugh then won't you.

[pagey]

3-4-3 for me.

Buffon

Puyol
Cannavaro
Ayala

Xavi
Ballack

Pirlo
Kaka

Eto'o
Fowler
Rooney

[pagey]

Oops meant Ronaldinho not Fowler!

[lyonsee]

Was waiting for someone to say something like that.

Shocking lack of width in your side Pagey.

[therock67]

lyonsee said:

Given


Cannavaro
Nesta
Ashley Cole


Makelele
Xabi Alonso
Gerrard

Ronaldinho
Henry
Robben

There's no right back jumping out at me - given the lack of width in that midfield you need an adventurous right back (while I think Puyol is a great player he is a centre-half). Finnan, Salgado, Belletti are not quite good enough and Thuram and Cafu are has beens. Hmmm I'll have to think more about it.

Not trying to pick on your team in particular but Jesus Christ Lyonsee are you for real? 7 of the 10 from the Premiership - and Finnan considered for right back.

No problems with Given and he's a decent shout for goalkeeper actually.

Right back - you've identified the same problem as me. In the end I chose Puyol but I recognise the attacking limitations.

Ashley Cole at left back is entirely laughable.

Your midfield trio are decent individual players but Gerrard and Xabi Alonso are not among the top 3 midfielders in the world. I used to love Alonso when he was at Sociedad and I like watching him play but he has severe limitations in dribbling and general movement.

Your top 3 doesn't have a guy who can head the ball. Robben for Chrissakes? Henry still picks and chooses his games at 29 and isn't going to stop now.

1 Barcelona player?
2 central midfielders from Liverpool and a third Liverpool player considered for right back! 2 or 3 times more Liverpool than Barca players!

2 from Arsenal

2 from Chelsea

You picked the best player in the world, a Premiership XI including Xabi Alonso and sure throw in a couple of Italian centre halves to make it look cosmopolitan.

[lyonsee]

admin said:

lyonsee said:

Given


Cannavaro
Nesta
Ashley Cole


Makelele
Xabi Alonso
Gerrard

Ronaldinho
Henry
Robben

There's no right back jumping out at me - given the lack of width in that midfield you need an adventurous right back (while I think Puyol is a great player he is a centre-half). Finnan, Salgado, Belletti are not quite good enough and Thuram and Cafu are has beens. Hmmm I'll have to think more about it.

Not trying to pick on your team in particular but Jesus Christ Lyonsee are you for real? 7 of the 10 from the Premiership - and Finnan considered for right back.

No problems with Given and he's a decent shout for goalkeeper actually.

Right back - you've identified the same problem as me. In the end I chose Puyol but I recognise the attacking limitations.

Ashley Cole at left back is entirely laughable.

Your midfield trio are decent individual players but Gerrard and Xabi Alonso are not among the top 3 midfielders in the world. I used to love Alonso when he was at Sociedad and I like watching him play but he has severe limitations in dribbling and general movement.

Your top 3 doesn't have a guy who can head the ball. Robben for Chrissakes? Henry still picks and chooses his games at 29 and isn't going to stop now.

1 Barcelona player?
2 central midfielders from Liverpool and a third Liverpool player considered for right back! 2 or 3 times more Liverpool than Barca players!

2 from Arsenal

2 from Chelsea

You picked the best player in the world, a Premiership XI including Xabi Alonso and sure throw in a couple of Italian centre halves to make it look cosmopolitan.

Ashley Cole is the best attacking left back in the world imo and adept enough in defence to justify his selection.

Alonso doesn't need to dribble - he's the quarterback - conductor of the orchestra if you will. Is Pirlo renowned for his dribbling? No, he's a very similar player. Your problem with Alonso is that he plays in the Premiership.

Gerrard - what does he need to do to convince people of his greatness? Scores great goals (refer to last night's game), links the play between midfield and up front, great tackler, great passer, can beat people. Big game player too - refer to last year's CL final and this year's FA Cup final.

I detest Robben but think he's a class act. I haven't really seen Messi who would possibly get in there ahead of him.

Don't need a striker to head the ball as my team plays its football on the ground.

Henry is sheer class and can score from anywhere - disappointed he isn't leaving Arsenal to prove himself elsewhere. Granted he can go missing but can produce something from nothing. Has been known to go missing in big games granted but I do make the point that last season his performances in big games include the following:

Ireland 0-1 France
Sparta Prague 0-2 Arsenal (Henry 2)
Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool (Henry 2)
Arsenal 2-0 Juventus (Henry 1)
Arsenal 1-1 Spurs
Arsenal 4-2 Wigan (Henry 3)

Fair enough my team is predominantly EPL based but I've gone with what I know - I don't get to see very much Italian/Spanish soccer. My team is far from weak. Get over your disdain for the EPL.

[eamo]

admin said:

steamboatsam said:

Following on from a debate in the 51 last night with some forum members, pick your current best world X1, ie no has beens like Zidane etc. Also choose your formation of choice. Mine is as follows

Buffon

Puyol
Nesta
Ayala
Heinze

Makelele
Ballack
Pirlo

Rooney
Eto'o
Ronaldinho

Feel free to critique / ridicule

Finding it hard to propose many changes but Bandage has included some of the players I'd propose.

Buffon

Puyol
Nesta
Ayala
Heinze

Makelele
Xavi
Ballack

Kaka
Ronaldinho

Eto'o

I'm not 100% convinced of Puyol and Heinze. With the narrow midfield that people are opting for it's important to have full backs who are prepared to attack. As evidenced the other day Puyol is obviously very comfortable when advancing with the ball but it's not a natural step for him.

I'd have Ronaldinho and Kaka roaming about with Ballack bursting a gut to get into the box all the time.

Ended up choosing a Christmas tree formation on paper but it's probably more akin to Barcelona's current effort, just that Kaka will be slightly more withdrawn than Giuly.

Mine is surprisingly similar:

Given
Gallas, Ayala (maybe Cannavaro), Toure, Zambrotta
Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Ballack
Ronaldinho, Kaka
Henry

Explanations:
Nobody is as good as Given for me between the sticks. Buffon is overrated.
Gallas is the best defender in the world - can play anywhere across the back four. Puyol is overrated. Toure is one of the most inform defenders around.
Honourable mention to Heinze, Lahm (awesome WC so far) and would not totally discount Cole

I saw Xavi and Xabi play together for Spain against England and they ran the show. I also put Ballack in there because he is a smashing midfielder - capable of getting his foot in and scoring crucial goals.

Kaka and Ronaldinho speak for themselves

I go for Henry upfront. I dont buy this shit that he doesnt do it in big games. He was excellent for Arsenal throughout the CL campaign (all could be considered big games). He missed an easy chance in the final but far from bottled it. He was awesome in the Euro 2000 final against Italy where he destroyed the overrated Nesta and has been top scorer in a top European league for the last 4(?) years in a row. I would also mention Shevchenko as well but not Eto'o.

[eamo]

Gui forget about Rooney - may replace Kaka for me

[bandage]

Gerrard was far and away the worst player on the pitch last night. RTE were making the point that the physical conditioning of the English players was shocking - they looked a couple of yards off the pace and Gilesy made the point they may have been overtrained. I would say undertrained and lacking sharpness - Sven gave them 2 days off to after the Paraguay game to allow them spend time with their families - incredible considering how poor they were in that game. Getting back to Gerrard - he was strolling around and got bossed by the lad from Port Vale, Birchall. Edwards skinned him just before half time and how I laughed when Yorke out muscled him and left him on his Ashley in the second half. Raging he scored then because it again hides all his blatant faults.

Had a row in the pub last night. Another forum member said he's a world class midfield player. I said he's excellent at long range shots. As far as I can recall he never has and doesn't have the ability to control a game from midfield like Xavi, Pirlo, Alonso et al.

Getting away from the point of the thread but I have to mention England whinging about the heat. Get over it. It's the World Cup for fook sake. Hypocritical cnuts too - they're very quick to knock foreign players in the EPL moaning about how they'll cope with the cold and rain in January. Boot's on the other foot now fookos.

[bandage]

lyonsee said:

Given


Cannavaro
Nesta
Ashley Cole


Makelele
Xabi Alonso
Gerrard

Ronaldinho
Henry
Robben

There's no right back jumping out at me - given the lack of width in that midfield you need an adventurous right back (while I think Puyol is a great player he is a centre-half). Finnan, Salgado, Belletti are not quite good enough and Thuram and Cafu are has beens. Hmmm I'll have to think more about it.

Right. That made us all laugh. Now pick your real team lyonsee.

[therock67]

lyonsee said:

admin said:

Not trying to pick on your team in particular but Jesus Christ Lyonsee are you for real? 7 of the 10 from the Premiership - and Finnan considered for right back.

No problems with Given and he's a decent shout for goalkeeper actually.

Right back - you've identified the same problem as me. In the end I chose Puyol but I recognise the attacking limitations.

Ashley Cole at left back is entirely laughable.

Your midfield trio are decent individual players but Gerrard and Xabi Alonso are not among the top 3 midfielders in the world. I used to love Alonso when he was at Sociedad and I like watching him play but he has severe limitations in dribbling and general movement.

Your top 3 doesn't have a guy who can head the ball. Robben for Chrissakes? Henry still picks and chooses his games at 29 and isn't going to stop now.

1 Barcelona player?
2 central midfielders from Liverpool and a third Liverpool player considered for right back! 2 or 3 times more Liverpool than Barca players!

2 from Arsenal

2 from Chelsea

You picked the best player in the world, a Premiership XI including Xabi Alonso and sure throw in a couple of Italian centre halves to make it look cosmopolitan.

Ashley Cole is the best attacking left back in the world imo and adept enough in defence to justify his selection.

Alonso doesn't need to dribble - he's the quarterback - conductor of the orchestra if you will. Is Pirlo renowned for his dribbling? No, he's a very similar player. Your problem with Alonso is that he plays in the Premiership.

Gerrard - what does he need to do to convince people of his greatness? Scores great goals (refer to last night's game), links the play between midfield and up front, great tackler, great passer, can beat people. Big game player too - refer to last year's CL final and this year's FA Cup final.

I detest Robben but think he's a class act. I haven't really seen Messi who would possibly get in there ahead of him.

Don't need a striker to head the ball as my team plays its football on the ground.

Henry is sheer class and can score from anywhere - disappointed he isn't leaving Arsenal to prove himself elsewhere. Granted he can go missing but can produce something from nothing. Has been known to go missing in big games granted but I do make the point that last season his performances in big games include the following:

Ireland 0-1 France
Sparta Prague 0-2 Arsenal (Henry 2)
Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool (Henry 2)
Arsenal 2-0 Juventus (Henry 1)
Arsenal 1-1 Spurs
Arsenal 4-2 Wigan (Henry 3)

Fair enough my team is predominantly EPL based but I've gone with what I know - I don't get to see very much Italian/Spanish soccer. My team is far from weak. Get over your disdain for the EPL.

Lahm has proven himself to be much better than Cole going forward. Since he started playing in the Champions League with Stuttgart he has been superb at creating goals and chances. Cole doesn't do it with anything like the same regularity - and certainly not in Europe.

I don't have a problem with where Alonso plays - like I said I enjoy watching him because he is a lovely passer of the ball. He's not as good as Pirlo as playing this pivotal "volante" role however and there are many others who are superior central midfielders. Do you genuinely believe that Liverpool's central midfield is superior to any other team's in the world because that's what your selection suggests?

Last night's game did nothing to suggest Gerrard is world class- in fact it proved the opposite. Scoring great goals does not make a player world class. He has scored a few and I think he's a decent player but he doesn't assert enough control over the midfield.

Robben is decent but posted missing for large parts of last season. Again the notion that he's better than all other wingers or wide forwards is ludicrous.

Not sure why you think Henry has to leave Arsenal to prove his greatness if his performances are as compelling as you suggest they are. Surely any other league would be a step down anyway? I wouldn't have major arguments with him because on his day he is awesome - I do think Eto'o is more consistent however.

The "get over your disdain for the EPL comment" is astonishing and laughable. You've hinted a couple of times that my views are clouded by a complex about the EPL: I suggest that the man who picks 70% of the world's top players as being based in the EPL might be the one with the blind spot. I chose 3 in my world XI selection which I figure is about right as a reflection of the league's standing. I might even have considered Given as a fourth if I'd thought of him.

As I said previously you picked the best player in the world, 2 Italian centre halves and then just lumped in a Premiership XI. If you don't watch other football at least have the good grace to concede that you haven't bothered picking a World XI at all - it's more of an Andy Gray World Select.

[lyonsee]

admin said:

lyonsee said:

Ashley Cole is the best attacking left back in the world imo and adept enough in defence to justify his selection.

Alonso doesn't need to dribble - he's the quarterback - conductor of the orchestra if you will. Is Pirlo renowned for his dribbling? No, he's a very similar player. Your problem with Alonso is that he plays in the Premiership.

Gerrard - what does he need to do to convince people of his greatness? Scores great goals (refer to last night's game), links the play between midfield and up front, great tackler, great passer, can beat people. Big game player too - refer to last year's CL final and this year's FA Cup final.

I detest Robben but think he's a class act. I haven't really seen Messi who would possibly get in there ahead of him.

Don't need a striker to head the ball as my team plays its football on the ground.

Henry is sheer class and can score from anywhere - disappointed he isn't leaving Arsenal to prove himself elsewhere. Granted he can go missing but can produce something from nothing. Has been known to go missing in big games granted but I do make the point that last season his performances in big games include the following:

Ireland 0-1 France
Sparta Prague 0-2 Arsenal (Henry 2)
Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool (Henry 2)
Arsenal 2-0 Juventus (Henry 1)
Arsenal 1-1 Spurs
Arsenal 4-2 Wigan (Henry 3)

Fair enough my team is predominantly EPL based but I've gone with what I know - I don't get to see very much Italian/Spanish soccer. My team is far from weak. Get over your disdain for the EPL.

Lahm has proven himself to be much better than Cole going forward. Since he started playing in the Champions League with Stuttgart he has been superb at creating goals and chances. Cole doesn't do it with anything like the same regularity - and certainly not in Europe.

I don't have a problem with where Alonso plays - like I said I enjoy watching him because he is a lovely passer of the ball. He's not as good as Pirlo as playing this pivotal "volante" role however and there are many others who are superior central midfielders. Do you genuinely believe that Liverpool's central midfield is superior to any other team's in the world because that's what your selection suggests?

Last night's game did nothing to suggest Gerrard is world class- in fact it proved the opposite. Scoring great goals does not make a player world class. He has scored a few and I think he's a decent player but he doesn't assert enough control over the midfield.

Robben is decent but posted missing for large parts of last season. Again the notion that he's better than all other wingers or wide forwards is ludicrous.

Not sure why you think Henry has to leave Arsenal to prove his greatness if his performances are as compelling as you suggest they are. Surely any other league would be a step down anyway? I wouldn't have major arguments with him because on his day he is awesome - I do think Eto'o is more consistent however.

The "get over your disdain for the EPL comment" is astonishing and laughable. You've hinted a couple of times that my views are clouded by a complex about the EPL: I suggest that the man who picks 70% of the world's top players as being based in the EPL might be the one with the blind spot. I chose 3 in my world XI selection which I figure is about right as a reflection of the league's standing. I might even have considered Given as a fourth if I'd thought of him.

As I said previously you picked the best player in the world, 2 Italian centre halves and then just lumped in a Premiership XI. If you don't watch other football at least have the good grace to concede that you haven't bothered picking a World XI at all - it's more of an Andy Gray World Select.

Have limited time but a response is warranted. Haven't seen Lahm so can't really comment. Would you say Cole is in the top 3 attacking left backs in the world? If so surely you can concede that he could possibly merit inclusion in a World XI?

I believe that along with Sissoko, Gerrard and Alonso make up the best midfield three in any team in the world. Gerrard controlled the 2nd half of the Champions League final last year. He dictated the tempo, influenced the whole team and scored a vital goal. He did the same in the last group game against Olympiakos in the CL last year and dragged us through the qualifying round against AK Graz. This season he was curtailed somewhat by having to solve Liverpool's right side midfield problem but was still voted Player of the Year by his fellow professionals. Alonso is better than Pirlo imo.

As I said I think Robben is a class act. Not fantastic last season but a huge impact the season before. No better left winger in the world for me.

You say 'surely any other league would be a step down'. I've never said the EPL is the best league in the world, merely that it is far superior to the SPL. The EPL is in the top 3 with Spain and Italy. The fact that I said I'd like to see him move is because he has proven himself in the EPL yet still has an incredible amount of doubters. Accordingly if he scored goals for fun in Italy/Spain maybe more people would acknowledge that he's a fantastic player. Eto'o has had how many good seasons?

In response to your lame comments re: Andy Gray World Selects, this again highlights your problem with the EPL. I do watch other football but not with the same regularity as EPL and acknowledged (not conceded) this fact. So I have 3 or 4 more players from the EPL than you. Hell you can even make it 5 cos I'll throw Gallas in at right back. All are top drawer in my opinion and I'm entitled to it. My team would stand up to any other posted here. I'll give Stevie and the boys a ring, see if we can get something organised for after the WC ;D

[therock67]

lyonsee said:

admin said:

Lahm has proven himself to be much better than Cole going forward. Since he started playing in the Champions League with Stuttgart he has been superb at creating goals and chances. Cole doesn't do it with anything like the same regularity - and certainly not in Europe.

I don't have a problem with where Alonso plays - like I said I enjoy watching him because he is a lovely passer of the ball. He's not as good as Pirlo as playing this pivotal "volante" role however and there are many others who are superior central midfielders. Do you genuinely believe that Liverpool's central midfield is superior to any other team's in the world because that's what your selection suggests?

Last night's game did nothing to suggest Gerrard is world class- in fact it proved the opposite. Scoring great goals does not make a player world class. He has scored a few and I think he's a decent player but he doesn't assert enough control over the midfield.

Robben is decent but posted missing for large parts of last season. Again the notion that he's better than all other wingers or wide forwards is ludicrous.

Not sure why you think Henry has to leave Arsenal to prove his greatness if his performances are as compelling as you suggest they are. Surely any other league would be a step down anyway? I wouldn't have major arguments with him because on his day he is awesome - I do think Eto'o is more consistent however.

The "get over your disdain for the EPL comment" is astonishing and laughable. You've hinted a couple of times that my views are clouded by a complex about the EPL: I suggest that the man who picks 70% of the world's top players as being based in the EPL might be the one with the blind spot. I chose 3 in my world XI selection which I figure is about right as a reflection of the league's standing. I might even have considered Given as a fourth if I'd thought of him.

As I said previously you picked the best player in the world, 2 Italian centre halves and then just lumped in a Premiership XI. If you don't watch other football at least have the good grace to concede that you haven't bothered picking a World XI at all - it's more of an Andy Gray World Select.

Have limited time but a response is warranted. Haven't seen Lahm so can't really comment. Would you say Cole is in the top 3 attacking left backs in the world? If so surely you can concede that he could possibly merit inclusion in a World XI?

I believe that along with Sissoko, Gerrard and Alonso make up the best midfield three in any team in the world. Gerrard controlled the 2nd half of the Champions League final last year. He dictated the tempo, influenced the whole team and scored a vital goal. He did the same in the last group game against Olympiakos in the CL last year and dragged us through the qualifying round against AK Graz. This season he was curtailed somewhat by having to solve Liverpool's right side midfield problem but was still voted Player of the Year by his fellow professionals. Alonso is better than Pirlo imo.

As I said I think Robben is a class act. Not fantastic last season but a huge impact the season before. No better left winger in the world for me.

You say 'surely any other league would be a step down'. I've never said the EPL is the best league in the world, merely that it is far superior to the SPL. The EPL is in the top 3 with Spain and Italy. The fact that I said I'd like to see him move is because he has proven himself in the EPL yet still has an incredible amount of doubters. Accordingly if he scored goals for fun in Italy/Spain maybe more people would acknowledge that he's a fantastic player. Eto'o has had how many good seasons?

In response to your lame comments re: Andy Gray World Selects, this again highlights your problem with the EPL. I do watch other football but not with the same regularity as EPL and acknowledged (not conceded) this fact. So I have 3 or 4 more players from the EPL than you. Hell you can even make it 5 cos I'll throw Gallas in at right back. All are top drawer in my opinion and I'm entitled to it. My team would stand up to any other posted here. I'll give Stevie and the boys a ring, see if we can get something organised for after the WC ;D

I don't rate Cole that highly at all personally. We can agree to disagree on that one. You think he's quality: I think he's pacy and not much else.

Gerrard "controlled the midfield" in last year's Champions League final once Hamann was brought on to control it for him. For a guy who had such influence he was bypassed entirely in the first half. He did well against Olympiakos. I didn't see the Graz game (or more likely, I don't remember it) but it might be a bit much to use it as a benchmark when you are scathing of the standard of opposition faced by Larsson etc. in the SPL debates.

I won't go any futher on the Henry/Eto'o debates because I don't see the point. I have agreed that Henry is sublime on his day, he just infuriates me so much on his bad days that I couldn't pick him in a World XI. I think Eto'o is more dangerous consistently. You do ask how many good seasons Eto'o has had - he's 25 and was African player of the year when he was 22, 23 and 24. Two remarkable seasons at Barcelona followed a progressively productive time at Mallorca. Class act.

I don't want to be seen to criticise just one selection because it is personal preference - I did genuinely wonder whether your selection was genuine or not thought.

[eamo]

El Hadji Diouf was voted African Footballer of the year twice if memory serves me correctly so I think we can discount that as a reputable award.

I have said it before but Gerrard is not a central midfielder. He is a wonderful player nevertheless to have in your team as he is a match winner and capable of dragging a team around by himself. But he is a lose canon.

It is naive in the extreme to suggest that 'Hamann controlled the CL final for Gerrard'. Benetiz picked a shocking team that day (as he did against Benfica) by picking Gerrard and Alonso together in the centre. Milan cut through at will. Hamann balanced up the side and allowed Gerrard to roam. He pulled us back into it with a superb header in the second half and then switched to right back and nullified the threat that was coming from Serginho. I had been his biggest critic before that but he was awesome in the second half.

What is all this misconception about Henry's bad days as if other players don't have bad days? Hate to say it Rock but you are feeding into the media held view, ne misconception there. All players have bad days and Henry isn't any different

[therock67]

eamo said:

El Hadji Diouf was voted African Footballer of the year twice if memory serves me correctly so I think we can discount that as a reputable award.

I have said it before but Gerrard is not a central midfielder. He is a wonderful player nevertheless to have in your team as he is a match winner and capable of dragging a team around by himself. But he is a lose canon.

It is naive in the extreme to suggest that 'Hamann controlled the CL final for Gerrard'. Benetiz picked a shocking team that day (as he did against Benfica) by picking Gerrard and Alonso together in the centre. Milan cut through at will. Hamann balanced up the side and allowed Gerrard to roam. He pulled us back into it with a superb header in the second half and then switched to right back and nullified the threat that was coming from Serginho. I had been his biggest critic before that but he was awesome in the second half.

What is all this misconception about Henry's bad days as if other players don't have bad days? Hate to say it Rock but you are feeding into the media held view, ne misconception there. All players have bad days and Henry isn't any different

Re: Eto'o the implication from Lyonsee was that Eto'o is a short-term star. I'm stating that he's 25 and has been consistently excellent since he was 22 so he's not a flash in the pan.

Re: Gerrard - Lyonsee's side has Alonso and Gerrard in the centre with Makelele holding there too. It's very narrow (especially on the left) and with two static holding players it's asking too much of Gerrard to bomb forward and move wide.

Lyonsee said that Gerrard controlled the second half of the Champions League final. I would argue that he was lost without Hamann and though Gerrard was much better second half he did need Hamann to support him - I think we can all agree on that. That's not my definition of controlling the midfield.

All players do have bad days - some more than others. Henry's bad days are more predictable. I'm not talking about the CL final where he could just as easily have been a hero - I'm talking about numerous EPL games when he has been just anonymous. He is wonderfully talented but if the opposition don't hold a high line against him then he loses interest sometimes. And all the media preoccupation with the lad that we're exposed to serves to deify him, not castigate him. It's in spite of, not because of, the media hype that I have my doubts.

[lyonsee]

admin said:

eamo said:

El Hadji Diouf was voted African Footballer of the year twice if memory serves me correctly so I think we can discount that as a reputable award.

I have said it before but Gerrard is not a central midfielder. He is a wonderful player nevertheless to have in your team as he is a match winner and capable of dragging a team around by himself. But he is a lose canon.

It is naive in the extreme to suggest that 'Hamann controlled the CL final for Gerrard'. Benetiz picked a shocking team that day (as he did against Benfica) by picking Gerrard and Alonso together in the centre. Milan cut through at will. Hamann balanced up the side and allowed Gerrard to roam. He pulled us back into it with a superb header in the second half and then switched to right back and nullified the threat that was coming from Serginho. I had been his biggest critic before that but he was awesome in the second half.

What is all this misconception about Henry's bad days as if other players don't have bad days? Hate to say it Rock but you are feeding into the media held view, ne misconception there. All players have bad days and Henry isn't any different

Re: Gerrard - Lyonsee's side has Alonso and Gerrard in the centre with Makelele holding there too. It's very narrow (especially on the left) and with two static holding players it's asking too much of Gerrard to bomb forward and move wide.

Lyonsee said that Gerrard controlled the second half of the Champions League final. I would argue that he was lost without Hamann and though Gerrard was much better second half he did need Hamann to support him - I think we can all agree on that. That's not my definition of controlling the midfield.

My team is not that narrow. Perhaps I should've explained. I'm playing two attacking full backs (well two when I find the other one, but probably Gallas) and Ronaldinho and Robben will obviously drop out wide to collect the ball as neither are out and out front men. The reason for putting them as fowards was to differentiate from Chelsea's 4-5-1 formation.

What is your definition of controlling midfield? Every central midfielder who controls a game needs support.