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Post by therock67 on Jun 20, 2006 15:30:07 GMT
Klose for me. Sensational scoring record in the Bundesliga this year - love to see class players reviving themselves after a difficult couple of years: always the mark of quality.
Plus his world cup goal scoring record (the biggest stage of all) is superb.
Fowler doesn't come close.
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Post by timofte on Jun 20, 2006 15:33:59 GMT
You'd have to say Klose for all his international goals on the big stage. Robbie Fowler is my favourite Premier League player of all time so its a tough one. For this poll going for Klose even though I went for Fowler against Larson in the last one.
DT
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Post by bandage on Jun 20, 2006 15:50:52 GMT
You'd have to say Klose for all his international goals on the big stage. Robbie Fowler is my favourite Premier League player of all time so its a tough one. For this poll going for Klose even though I went for Fowler against Larson in the last one. DT Your reasons for voting for Klose apply equally for Larsson. If he scores in this tournament he joins a band of only 5 other players to score in WCs 12 years apart. Klose without question - Fowler's not near that bracket. |
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Post by timofte on Jun 20, 2006 16:01:30 GMT
You'd have to say Klose for all his international goals on the big stage. Robbie Fowler is my favourite Premier League player of all time so its a tough one. For this poll going for Klose even though I went for Fowler against Larson in the last one. DT Your reasons for voting for Klose apply equally for Larsson. If he scores in this tournament he joins a band of only 5 other players to score in WCs 12 years apart. Klose without question - Fowler's not near that bracket. I’m hearing you Bandage, but when I vote in the last poll I felt that that Fowlers goal scoring performance outweighed Larssons at club level. I don’t think we need to re-open this debate. I acknowledge Larssons credentials especially the contribution he gave to Barcelona’s CL win and also I may be somewhat biased in my opinion of Fowler. Long live GOD. |
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Post by steamboatsam on Jun 20, 2006 16:05:13 GMT
Klose for me. Sensational scoring record in the Bundesliga this year - love to see class players reviving themselves after a difficult couple of years: always the mark of quality. Plus his world cup goal scoring record (the biggest stage of all) is superb. Fowler doesn't come close. Surely you should have said "Fowler doesn't come Klose".  I agree |
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Post by cully on Jun 20, 2006 22:45:58 GMT
smite for the missed pun, shameful
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pagey
Joe Brolly
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Post by pagey on Jun 21, 2006 7:38:22 GMT
Well Henke joined that list. Sami Al Jaber (saudi 94 and 06), Maradonna (82 and 94), Pele (58 and 70) are 3 others. Missing 2 though, anyone?
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Post by jimmyhillschin on Jun 21, 2006 7:54:07 GMT
Im not going to vote in this because honestly I havent seen much of Klose in league matches but...
I myself dont rate the Bundesliga, it is the fourth best in Europe but way behind La Liga, The Premiership and Serie A. As for Kloses world cup goals, the last time around he only scored against Saudi Arabia, Ireland and Cameroon. So I'd have to say Robbie Fowler on this one
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Post by therock67 on Jun 21, 2006 8:15:38 GMT
Im not going to vote in this because honestly I havent seen much of Klose in league matches but... I myself dont rate the Bundesliga, it is the fourth best in Europe but way behind La Liga, The Premiership and Serie A. As for Kloses world cup goals, the last time around he only scored against Saudi Arabia, Ireland and Cameroon. So I'd have to say Robbie Fowler on this one That really is laughable - you don't know enough about Klose so you reckon it must be Fowler. It's a typical Irish fawning attitude to the EPL - a league where Fowler could only cut it for two and a half seasons. As I've argued many times on here (and Iamthelaw backed me up with statistics) German clubs have a superior record to English in the Champions League. Sky tell us they have the best soccer league, the best rugby union league, the best rugby league 2 and so on but it simply isn't the case. As for the list of teams he has scored against it really annoys me when people dismiss his scoring record for the opposition he played against. It's the same argument Gerry McDermott made against Keane - most games are against inferior opposition. If you score in or win all those games you'll be hugely successful. The other day I heard someone say that Germany haven't beaten a top class international side in 8 years or something. What utter nonsense. They were in the final of the last world cup. They beat everyone they needed to other than Brazil in the final. Rant over. |
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Post by jimmyhillschin on Jun 21, 2006 8:28:21 GMT
As I said, I cant make an honest comparison and I havent voted based on that. All I have done is stated a few facts about Klose.
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Post by therock67 on Jun 21, 2006 8:34:22 GMT
To be fair I wrote my reply and then re-read your original post and saw you hadn't voted but I just clicked "post message" anyway. Apologies - I get a little defensive over Klose.
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Post by tommymoore on Jun 21, 2006 9:47:07 GMT
I don’t think you can have a debate about who is better without first examining the facts (ie who has scored the most goals in games). Well here they are: (I got these stats from some internet website last night so my apologies if they are not fully up to date or correct)
Fowler:
1999–2001 Liverpool 236 (120)
2001–2002 Leeds United 30 (14)
2002–2006 Manchester City 80 (20)
2006–present Liverpool 14 (5)
National team
1996–2002 England 26 (7)
Klose:
1999-2004 FC Kaiserslautern 130 (47)
2004- Werder Bremen 64 (42)
National team**
2001- Germany 56 (26)
Excluding the National teams for the meantime Fowler has scored 159 goals in 360 appearance across his career. This equates to a goal in 44% of the games he has played in. Compare this to Klose who has scored 89 in 194 appearances or a goal in approx 46% of games. This gives the edge to Klose. However the question related to Fowler at his peak. I think it is fair to say that Fowler was at his peak during his first spell at Liverpool. Fowler scored 120 goals in 236 appearances for Liverpool equating to a goal in 51% of games. Advantage Folwer.
Taking International appearances into account, well the facts speak for itself. Klose’s scoring record for zee Germans is up there with his club a goal in approx 46% of games while Fowler is just at 27%. Fowler never really performed for England. According to his autobiography ( a cracking read by the way) the reason for this being injuries and he also fell out of favour with Sven when he took over. That’s not my opinion it his by the way.
So who’s the better. Based on club form it’s Fowler during his first spell at Liverpool (his peak) as his goalscoring is more superior. However if you take International goals it’s Klose as has now performed well at 2 world cups.
That’s my attempt at bringing in some facts into the argument. Now you can make up your own mind.
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Post by Ball Ox on Jun 21, 2006 9:58:43 GMT
That's a bit sterile tommy. Did you do a workpaper on that? Objective, test conclusion??
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Post by therock67 on Jun 21, 2006 10:10:40 GMT
Why in God's name would you not count international appearances?
The statistics also show how much Klose is improving. For much of his career he was playing with the relatively lowly Kaiserslautern. Since his move to Werder Bremen who are altogether more competitive his goal ratio is 66% which blows Fowler's first spell out of the water.
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Post by tommymoore on Jun 21, 2006 10:17:43 GMT
I didn't say not to include International appearances. I just broke them down for clarity's sake. Easier to compare them if there broken down.
No didn't do a workpaper FO rangers! that stage of my life if well behind me now thank god!
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Post by therock67 on Jun 21, 2006 11:00:58 GMT
Not suggesting you personally would exclude international apperances - just wondering why you considered it as an option.
I'd like to see who voted for Klose in this one that voted for Fowler in the last. And then I'd like to know how many of them would have said a couple of days ago that they thought Klose was a better striker than Larsson.
Sport creates such short-term memories - witness the hype around Ecuador last weekend. People were openly wondering if it would be better to meet Germany or Ecuador in the next round. An Ecuador team that beat an appalling Poland and Costa Rica. All of a sudden everyone is wondering if Ecuador might in fact be better than England and Germany. No basis for this, just two world cup games against brual opposition.
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Post by bandage on Jun 21, 2006 11:12:54 GMT
Still think they could beat England who should be brought before The Hague for crimes against football. They rested 4 or 5 against Germany yesterday.
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Post by iamthelaw on Jun 21, 2006 22:58:52 GMT
yeah I'm still happy with my bet on Ecuador to make the quarters. i still think the European teams generally are over-rated.
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eamo
Ger Loughnane
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Post by eamo on Jul 1, 2006 12:55:06 GMT
yeah I'm still happy with my bet on Ecuador to make the quarters. i still think the European teams generally are over-rated. You said the day the WC started that you thought that Ecudaor were going to be the 94 Bolivia of this World Cup.... At least you didn't have 250 quid riding on it says you! PS I am dying to get into a debate in defense of Fowler but my credibility re Klose is gone.... |
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Post by iamthelaw on Jul 2, 2006 20:17:57 GMT
You said the day the WC started that you thought that Ecudaor were going to be the 94 Bolivia of this World Cup.... At least you didn't have 250 quid riding on it says you! Yeah my predictions have been so wrong through this World Cup that I'm actually making money by not betting. Was seconds away on Friday night from putting money on a Roddick-Agassi double. And didn't bet on Portugal to win cos I was afraid I'd jinx them. |
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