Top Ten Tyrants

[stickywithoutjam]

This is a tricky one- do we go by numbers, viciousness, legacy etc.

My opinion swings behind Stalin, the worst of a nasty bunch!

[imposter]

Right, my top five are as follows;

God
Mother Nature
Stalin
Pol Pot
Hitler

others of note; Genghis Kahn, Oliver Cromwell (cunt), Churchill.

[bandage]

imposter said:

Right, my top five are as follows;

God
Mother Nature
Stalin
Pol Pot
Hitler

others of note; Genghis Kahn, Oliver Cromwell (cunt), Churchill.

It sickens me to this day that Wexford County Council named a housing estate 'Cromwell's Fort' as it was from this field, high above the town, that he planned his assaults on the town. What the fook? Stalin, Bush or Blair for me.

[jimmyhillschin]

I went for Hitler for obvious reasons.

Another one who more than qualifys is Idi Amin

[cornflakes]

My first free kick posting...sweet!

Hitler is not the one dimensional figure the media has depicted him to be. His theories may be wrong but they were well thought out, well argued and democratically voted on. He is no random axe wielding physcho in the Stalin / Mao / Pot mould.

Cornflakes

[imposter]

Well said Cornflakes, while Hitler was evil personified, his actions were not random, but coldly calculated. I dont think they were democratically voted on though.....

I think Genghis Kahn merits a strong mention, he wiped out the population of a few countries (but that was standard practice back then).

[iamthelaw]

According to a book called "Death by Government" by R.Rummel, the major mass killings of this century were as follows:

• "Soviet Gulag (1917-87) -Executions during collectivization, etc. : 61,911,000
  
• Communist Chinese State (1949-87) -Executions of landlords, peasants, etc.: 35,236,000
  
• Nazi State (1933-45) -6 mil Jews, 5 mil Poles, 10 mil others : 20,946,000
  
• Chinese Nationalist (1928-49)-Purges of communists, etc.: 10,214,000
  
• Japan's military (1936-45)-Nanking massacre, etc.: 5,964,000
  Khmer Rouge (1975-79)-Khmer Rouge kill 1/3 of Cambodians: 2,035,000
  
• Turkey's Young Turks (1909-18)-Slaughter of Turkey's Armenians: 1,883,000
  
• N. Vietnamese (1945-1987)-S Vietnam's democide: 1.670,000
  Poland killed ethnic Germans-8 million fled Poland (1945-1948): 1,585,000
  
• West Pakistan (1958-87) -E. Pakistan Hindus killed or expelled: 1,503,000"
  

Obviously some of those are over longer periods than one man could have been responsible for; as individuals, I've found the following:

Stalin: up to 50m
Mao: up to 43m
Genghis Khan: up to 60m

Following on from the Mattie Forde debate, if greatness must also take into account the limits fate may place on one's opportunities, Pol Pot surely deserves a mention, in that his killing of 2m fellow-Cambodians amounted to 1/3 of the country's population at the time.

[eamo]

Hitler for me.

Apparently when he was in poverty in Vienna the Jews wouldn't give him any money. So he said 'When I get into power, I will wipe you out' (or in the words of Radiohead 'when I am king you will be first against the wall')

And he nearly did. That is evilness personified.

[imposter]

Thank god you have no power Eamo, u'd kill all the Norwegians.

[iamthelaw]

Stalin has to get marks for coming up with the line (subsequently used by Marilyn Manson):
"The death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic"

Or to follow imposter's earlier point,
"Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are a God."
(Jean Rostand, writer (son of Edmond Rostand, who wrote Cyrano de Bergerac))

[therock67]

jimmyhillschin said:

I went for Hitler for obvious reasons.

Another one who more than qualifys is Idi Amin

Jon Snow (Channel 4 news guy) once nearly assassinated Idi Amin:

My chance to shoot Amin

Jon Snow
Tuesday June 11, 2002
The Guardian


News that Idi Amin, former dictator of Uganda, seeks to return home from the inclement climes of Saudi has uncomfortably reminded me of my disgraceful role in his survival. I should have shot him. He presented me with the opportunity in 1976. We were squeezed into his Falcon executive jet flying north to his village in West Nile.
Beyond a ginger-haired Swiss pilot and a bulky air stewardess, there was only him, me and my crew aboard. Early in the flight, his Stetson-covered head slumped forward on to the seat-back in front. He was directly across the tiny aisle from me, and a holstered pistol dangled through the arm rest. I thought to grab it. Then I wondered what happens if you shoot a very fat man in a confined pressurised cabin? Does the bullet ricochet around inside him or go straight through, penetrating the aircraft skin, sucking us out after him? Then, is he asleep? Is the gun loaded? What will the Swiss pilot do afterwards? Anyway, how do you actually fire a pistol? Is there a safety lock or some such? Bravado failed me, and it is my singular fault that he is with us still.

[therock67]

iamthelaw said:

Stalin has to get marks for coming up with the line (subsequently used by Marilyn Manson):
"The death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic"

Or to follow imposter's earlier point,
"Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are a God."
(Jean Rostand, writer (son of Edmond Rostand, who wrote Cyrano de Bergerac))

Smashing quote from Rostand. Exalt for that.

[timofte]

Eddie Hobbs?

[imposter]

timofte said:

Eddie Hobbs?

yeah, he's a hateful cunt.

[eamo]

May I direct new members to the poll 'Ireland's Most Hateful Person' currently on about page 4 of the forum?

I am going to add Nell McCaffery into this thread though for being pure evil

[iamthelaw]

eamo said:

I am going to add Nell McCafferty into this thread though for being pure evil

Interestingly, she came up in discussion at lunch between a number of other forum members; I think "a complete fool" would have been more the consensus view. "Pure evil" gives her far too much credit.

[bandage]

iamthelaw said:

eamo said:

I am going to add Nell McCafferty into this thread though for being pure evil

Interestingly, she came up in discussion at lunch between a number of other forum members; I think "a complete fool" would have been more the consensus view. "Pure evil" gives her far too much credit.

What has she done this time? Is she in the news today?

[iamthelaw]

bandage said:

iamthelaw said:

Interestingly, she came up in discussion at lunch between a number of other forum members; I think "a complete fool" would have been more the consensus view. "Pure evil" gives her far too much credit.

What has she done this time? Is she in the news today?

She was on Prime Time last night, discussing trends in Irish society over the last 20 years. Dunphy & Alan Dukes were also on the panel, making serious and reasoned points, while McCafferty constantly interrupted the others with facetious and irrelevant comments, not looking to contribute any meaningful analysis imo. Dunphy ended up ignoring and talking over her. Fool.

[whyohwhy]

Robert Mugabe, he's a bit of a tryant these days

[therock67]

whyohwhy said:

Robert Mugabe, he's a bit of a tryant these days

What about successive British governments who stole the land in the first place? Cecil Rhodes created the problem and Mugabe's actions are merely the most recent in the conflict between black natives and white settlers. Depends how far you want to back to find your tyrants I suppose.

[whyohwhy]

admin said:

whyohwhy said:

Robert Mugabe, he's a bit of a tryant these days

What about successive British governments who stole the land in the first place? Cecil Rhodes created the problem and Mugabe's actions are merely the most recent in the conflict between black natives and white settlers. Depends how far you want to back to find your tyrants I suppose.

Then, i propose successive British Governments as a candidate (candidates?) for top ten tryants

[bandage]

whyohwhy said:

Then, i propose successive British Governments as a candidate (candidates?) for top ten tryants

I agree. Successive British governments have been the stormy petrel in the affairs of so many countries over the years it is mind boggling. Reading the monstrous Bob Fisk tome 'The Great War For Civilisation' at the moment and the problems still in existence today all around the world can be directly traced back to their interference in numerous cases.

[whyohwhy]

bandage said:

whyohwhy said:

Then, i propose successive British Governments as a candidate (candidates?) for top ten tryants

I agree. Successive British governments have been the strormy petrel in the affairs of so many countries over the years it is mind boggling. Reading the monstrous Bob Fisk tome 'The Great War For Civilisation' at the moment and the problems still in existence today all around the world can be directly traced back to their interference in numerous cases.

Robert Fisk legend.

Himself and Noam Chomsky: fighting the good fight

[therock67]

bandage said:

whyohwhy said:

Then, i propose successive British Governments as a candidate (candidates?) for top ten tryants

the strormy petrel

;D ;D ;D ;D Keep 'em coming

[iamthelaw]

Another contributor over lunch yesterday raised the name of Dr Henry Kissinger, who has been accused of the following crimes as US Secretary of State:

• Masterminding the US "secret bombing" of Cambodia in 1969-1975, killing an estimated 600,000 peasants
  
• Quietly supporting the subsequent Pol Pot regime
  
• Supporting Indonesian President Suharto, who is estimated to have killed over 1 million of his own people
  
• Giving the go-ahead to Indonesian President Suharto's invasion and occupation of East Timor
  
• Masterminding the bloody overthrow of democratically-elected Chilean President Salvador Allende by a right wing would-be junta of current and former Chilean military officers led by Pinochet